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Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

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Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#581

Post by astral303 »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #189

I wouldn't mind touchscreens as long as these imbecile developers would strictly limit UI response time to under 16ms. In no world where you're barrelling 3,000+ lbs of mass at tens of miles an hour should you be distracted by some moronic app or subsystem failing to respond in time because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." Any software running as a part of a motor vehicle should be federally…

"What do you get when you cross a computer with a car?" "A computer!"

It's a "Riddle for the Information Age" that in Alan Cooper wrote in 1999 [1] in "The Inmates Are Running the Asylum". One of the riddles is: "what do you get when you cross a computer with an airplane?" but things have gotten much much worse since then, it needs an update with the contents of this article.

He writes: "That something like this slipped through shows that the software inside the car is not coming from the same Porsche that makes the rest of the car... Acceptable levels of quality for software engineers are far lower than those for more traditional engineering disciplines..."

We have seen this coming for 20 years now easily. iDrive happened and excuses were made.

Nobody cares about response times or human-oriented design, it seems, which is incredibly baffling in a car! Where the rest of the controls are supposed to be designed with humans in mind.

My 2022 Subaru's Harman Kardon-built head-unit will block out my entire navigation view for 3 seconds if I dare to brush the volume control with my hand. I've learned to not adjust it after that because doing so only prolongs the time that I can't see where I'm supposed to be going. Also, if I am so unlucky as to lower the volume while the navigation speaks, I end up adjusting the "voiceover volume" and not the "radio/media volume." So when I wonder: "hey why did the navigation stop talking?" I have to remember that I hit the unlucky time to use the invisbily-modal volume knob. Of course, nobody cares and they let this travesty out the door because it's just the "entertainment system."

1 - https://www.amazon.com/Inmates-Are-Running-Asylum-Products/d...

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#582

Post by bmacho »

checkyoursudo wrote: post #393

With. A. Passion. Other touch screens (or similar things) I dislike: - the controls on my stove top - the controls on my monitor - the controls on my tv - the controls on my thermostat - probably more All of these should have physical buttons for the limited number of functions required. Or, at a minimum, for navigation and confirmation. Touch screens there suck. My wife's car has a touch screen on the control/infota…

Touchscreens on ticket machines. They don't work when it is sunny, cloudy, raining or snowing. And even when working, ticket machines with physical buttons are just way faster and easier.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#583

Post by cbertoldi »

the_overseer wrote: post #319
ISO-morphism wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that the engineers are competent at developing software, and think that a lot of the quality issues are due to engineers abdicating authority over the software to managers and never saying "No, adding in that feature at this point in the timeline is going to make this a steaming pile of shit and I refuse to do it and still call myself a software engineer." I get that we have families to feed, but I've seen…

The industry works as follows: the OEM (Daimler, Toyota etc.) says they want a software spec implemented. Other companies (Tier 1 suppliers) bid to win the contract. The cheapest usually wins. If you have a company and refuse to take the crazy deadlines and low quality and low pay then don't worry, there is another Tier 1 supplier across the street who will do it for you. OEMs know that you need them more than they n…

That was true and it might be true for most of the production process, but as you may read in this article https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/02/mercedes-ceo-tells-ars-... they are actively working to change and speed up the software development process:

Källenius explained the current system to Ars Technica like this:

    "So some engineer in Sindelfingen comes up with a concept. You have to write that down. You have to send it to the supplier that needs to be quoted. Then procurement people need to negotiate with each other. Then that supplier goes to some sub-supplier in Eastern Europe and wherever they do. It goes back up the chain again. It gets tested and nine months later, you have actually changed something in your infotainment system. Now you go into the ESH [Mercedes' electric Software Hub]. To say, let's change this and you just do it."

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#584

Post by bjarneh »

shellfishgene wrote: post #557
bjarneh wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is that induction? The product page says "Elektrisk platetopp" and not "Induksjonstopper". No, it's not induction. The BOSCH stoves with induction all have that nutty touch interface :/

There is a bunch of Bosch induction models in the Series 4 that allow knob control from the oven.

OK, I just took a quick glance at the Norwegian BOSCH website, and all I saw was that touch interface. Glad they still exist...

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#585

Post by perlgeek »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #577

Our car has a decent sized touch screen and I think it's great. I can browse Spotify rather whatever CD I left in the car 3 years ago, I can use Google maps rather than the rubbish build in navigation, I can set the clock to BST without getting the manual out etc. However, none of the cars primary controls are on the touch screen. Air-conditioned, volume, gear selector, menus for range and fuel consumption all have p…

That's the optimal solution, IMHO.

You don't want to enter an address in the navigation system with buttons or a scroll wheel, that's just horrible. So you still need that touchscreen, but hopefully not while driving, or only very rarely so.

All the functions that you often need while driving should be accessible with buttons or other forms of UI that give you tactile feedback, and which you don't have to see to engage.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#587

Post by vsl »

onion2k wrote: post #422
bradgessler wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems > Given that with a physical button you didn't have to take your eyes off the road and given the tactile feedback you know for sure you activated/pressed/moved the control I never understand the "you don't have to look at buttons" argument—my car has lots of physical buttons and to push them, I briefly have to look at the console, find the button, and pre…

my car has lots of physical buttons and to push them, I briefly have to look at the console, find the button, and press it For things that you do regularly the button should be optimized to not be in the middle of a cluster. Ideally it'll be somewhere you can see easily (like on the steering wheel), and most importantly of all it isn't dependent on context. In my car I can easily turn on the aircon, or change the mus…

> Buttons not working isn't a common issue as far as I know.

The touchscreen latency issue discussed in parent posts is just that...

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#588

Post by zx10rse »

Controls from touch screens should be banned.

There is a reason why your cognitive memory performs far superior with physical buttons and knobs.

There is a reason why formula 1 car steering wheel is full with buttons, not a touch screen.

There are plenty of well established UX laws, and principles form 60's like Hick's law Fitt's law and so on. Plenty of studies of failures, because of bad UX.

Every time I see tesla model 3 with that big screen, and not only model 3, I cringe so hard.

Screens should be integrated in cockpits. Software should enhance the experience not add more cognitive load.

I sometimes wonder do they even hire UX specialists or UI designers in those companies.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#589

Post by bombolo »

bottlepalm wrote: post #428
bombolo wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No amount of UX genius can make a touchscreen visible when the sun is glaring on it. For the Teslas records, it might be because they're exclusively used for short urban trips.

The roof, back and back side windows on a Tesla are tinted, how are you getting screen glare? I've never had that issue.

The first part of your comment didn't mention tesla. It was just about the records of accidents that you mentioned tesla.

I can only know what you write, not what you had intended to write.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#590

Post by popey »

I've had an EV for a year now (a Mini). It has a touch screen, but also has a bunch of buttons. I almost never use the touchscreen as a result, and when I do, it'a annoying. Typing addresses into the navigation system is painful, even for the passenger, while driving. The various buttons and wheels which augment the touchscreen are way more usable.
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