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On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

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181–190 of 362 posts

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#181

English is widely spoken and understood, even in tech-related environments, and that speaking German may not necessarily be an advantage in all situations.a moderate level of German proficiency is required for obtaining a permanent residence permit in Germany.

There are 360MM people who aren't German, but are EU citizens and have the right to work in Germany without a permanent residence permit.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#182
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spontaneously means for something to happen surprisingly or without an apparent cause.

Swedish "simplified" this problem by having the same word (spontan) mean both 1) Happens without apparent cause 2) Happens at short notice Context is your only clue to which meaning is intended...

Does it really tho? Can't come up with an example of the second meaning right now.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#183
post #52

The part about feeling a certain tristesse that your native language is a shared commodity rather than a cosy secret was very resonant. And a native English speaker who tries to speak the local language in, I would say, most any sizable European city will typically find that their attempt is politely shut down by their interlocutor in favour of English, because they will speak it vastly better than you speak their la…

This is a very real barrier, it takes some time to build enough confidence to push through and continue in the target language.

A big part of this is that there casual traveller will typically primarily interact with people who work in hospitality - hotels, restaurants, bars - for whom dealing with foreigners is a major part of the job and who will accordingly be heavily biased towards using English to any foreign customer.

Saw a couple of good examples of this on holiday in Rome a few years back - one sensible, one bizarre: first a couple of Scandinavians on the table next to us in a restaurant, talking to their waiter in english, which made total sense. The bizarre one was a French group walking into another eatery and negotiating for a table of five with the maitre d using the English word "five", even though the word in French and Italian is basically the same!

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#184
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at the local immigration office only a few weeks ago and German language skills are still very much required for PR. One doesn't need it for the family reunion visa and work permit, but does for PR. There is talk of dropping this requirement, but I'll believe it when I see it.

> There is talk of dropping this requirement, but I'll believe it when I see it. I really hope it doesn't get dropped; it is unreasonable to live permanently in a country without speaking the local language There are other types of residencies available if someone is an expat and doesn't plan on staying permanently And it's not like they're asking for a high fluency; with B1, you can barely hold a simple coherent con…

> it is unreasonable to live permanently in a country without speaking the local language

But what if there are countries where the 'local language' eventually becomes like Irish in Ireland?

Everyone who goes to school in the Republic of Ireland will learn some Irish at school. Almost every Irish person will know some Irish expressions, Irish songs, and be aware of Irish-language culture and literature as well as English-language Irish culture. If two native Irish people were in a hostage situation, held by English speakers who didn't know any Irish, and had to communicate without being understood, most would probably manage to do so.

And yet, you could live anywhere in Ireland your whole life and never be in a situation where you needed anything other than English to make yourself understood. No official purpose, and no business interaction would ever require Irish, even in the most rural and remote areas.

If you cared deeply about the Irish language, wouldn't it make more sense to support and honor Irish poetry, song, literature and theatre, rather than trying to coerce or force immigrants into learning a (reputedly difficult) language with around 1 million speakers, and less than 100,000 daily active users?

Some (not historically Anglophone) countries are getting close to being like this, in particular the Netherlands and Sweden. The metropolitan areas of those countries are much further down that path. If local culture is still preserved, taught and celebrated, is a really a problem?

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#185
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a false friend for a German. The German adverb „spontan“ does not mean „spontaneously“. The former means „at short notice“ while the latter „without direction“.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/de/worterbuch/englisch/spon... "spontaneously" translates to "spontan".

"Spontaneously" conflicts with "intentionally" in English. A spontaneous act is incompatible with having made a conscious decision about acting in that way. When something happens spontaneously, it happens by itself, without any intentionality.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#186
post #172
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you have this information from? The State of Berlin says otherwise https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/121864/en/ : ------ Sufficient knowledge of German You must have an adequate command of the German language (level B 1 of the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages). If you were in possession of either a residence permit or a residence authorisation on 31/12/2004, you only have to demons…

That's for non-EU citizens. There are 360MM non-German EU citizens - some of which are living in Berlin visa-free.

There has never been any language requirement for EU citizens to live in Germany or anywhere else, ever since freedom of movement was established.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#188
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm British by birth, I chose Berlin after Brexit because: 1. Friends here 2. Alternative countries were Luxembourg/Switzerland (more expensive); Canada (worse weather); Ireland (fear I might get blamed personally for the stupid done by British politicians, and the UK Gov was being loudly stupid about Ireland at the time); USA (weird culture, guns); Australia/New Zealand (too far from the old country to visit regular…

> Belgium (saw a police officer with a long barrelled gun at the train station and noped out of even visiting it during an Interrail exploration trip) You know St Pancras has the same? Although maybe you'd also exclude London on the same basis.

Police with guns are extremely rare everywhere in London, although yes, we do have some cosplayers in big stations and outside Parliament.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#189
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst thing is someone trying to put it in past tense: For "herunterladen" it's easy: "herunter-ge-laden". For "download", the obvious choice is "downloaded", but instead some people prefer the weird hodge-podge of "down-ge-loaded"

It gets worse. I don't know who started it (personally I blame Apple talking about its app store) but increasingly I see "laden" being used instead of "herunterladen". When used with "auf", it's usually about installing an app: "lade dir die App auf's Handy". But frequently it's used without any preposition to mean "download": "lade den Gratis-Background". I'd much prefer "downgeloaded" over this nonsense using "actu…

So, this is how the German transition to Swedish grammar begins! Not the with a bang but with a lade den gratisbakgrund.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#190
post #145

Global English is both a blessing and a curse. Never before could so many people communicate across linguistic divides (even if imperfectly). But the price is that never before was the rich collective cultural heritage under such threat. The two facets are deeply related. Like any lingua franca before, global English was invented to facilitate trade (economic exchange). The fact that it is English and not Basque or S…

This is perhaps nitpicking but I wish non-native English speakers would not use the term “Anglo-Saxon” to describe anglophone or (better) English speaking countries. The term refers to the original north Germanic invaders of England and so has tribal (racial) connotations and is typically used in English to distinguish people on that basis. Many/most Americans (e.g. black or Native American) so not consider themselve…

The bigger problem is that they've used "anglosaxon" to use what we would probably refer to as neoliberalism, acting as if a controversial policy setting is somehow cultural or racial. You can be a good anglosaxon who opposes neoliberalism. You can be a good English speaker and oppose neoliberalism - whether from the right or the left.
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