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On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

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Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#161

Post by usrusr »

aix1 wrote: post #114
pjmlp wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you travel to NRW, you will get the special forces police units using those kinds of guns on train stations, specially in days where critical football matches are taking place.

> If you travel to NRW North Rhine-Westphalia? (Don't live in Germany, took me a while.)

That one. It's the only Bundesland commonly referred to by an acronym and I guess we are lucky that the English toponym still matches.

The other three-letter candidate (Mecklenburg-Vorpommern) is more commonly just shortened to Mecklenburg which isn't an option for NRW because the non-Westphalia part is the more important by far but "north-Rhine" wouldn't really work as a standalone name.

Acronyms for our various Saxonies would be rather awkward because both prefix-Saxonies would collide prominently with an acronym already taken by nazism.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#162

Post by G3rn0ti »

DemocracyFTW2 wrote: post #160
G3rn0ti wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> typical German pessimism Yes, it is. What shall I say. :) Typical Berlin phrase BTW: „Kann man nich meckan“. That’s about the highest praise you can expect from an Urberliner.

The highest culinary praise reserved for the finest of treats is famously "Kannste essn", lit. "you can eat that".

„Bleibt drinnen“ is quite colloquial, too. ;)

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#163

Post by G3rn0ti »

vanderZwan wrote: post #69

> The other day my friend S., an American Berliner, said that he had noticed his English-language social circle starting to use the word « spontaneously » wrong. When Germans say they’ll organise a social event spontan, they mean they’ll work out the details at short notice. To socialise spontaneously, in English, means something rather different. But S. and I and our Neukölln friends have started using it in the sen…

Y‘all overthinking this. As I have written somewhere below:

Words usually have multiple meanings, common ones and less common ones. "False friend" words usually swapped their common and rare semantics when entering a different language. In this case, the common meaning for "spontaneously" is "without direction" but not "on short notice". But it's the other way around in German. There actually is the German term "spontane Ordnung" ("order from chaos") using the English connotation in this case.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#164

Post by caporaltito »

philippgerard wrote: post #63
MandieD wrote: post #11

Observation of Berlin from the weekend I spent there last month: literally the only place I was better off speaking German rather than English was a Turkish cafe. Everywhere else? Too many people understood English far better than they did German, especially anywhere to do with tech. Some of the tech people I talked to were running into being otherwise eligible for a permanent residence permit, but not being able to…

A permanent residency (PR) in Berlin does not require German language skills anymore. Maybe this is official or just established practice but regardless, there’a no reason not to have your PR if you qualify otherwise.

> A permanent residency (PR) in Berlin does not require German language skills anymore.

Of course it does

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#165

Post by jaclaz »

gattilorenz wrote: post #56
camillomiller wrote: post #23

Very nice overview of our Berlin patois. As an Italian living in Berlin, my favorite (which makes my Aussie partner roll her eyes) is saying something like “you are invited” when you pay for someone else’s coffee or meal. It’s a literal translation of “du bist eingeladen”. My partner taught me “I shout you”, but I also have the feeling that’s pretty Aussie or Brit. Any non-native friend understands “I invite you”, bu…

“I’m treating you” should he a proper translation of “offro io”

I always used (maybe wrongly) "it's on me" for "offro io".

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#166

Post by AdamN »

Lacerda69 wrote: post #60
jillesvangurp wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that is specific to Berlin is that increasingly bars and cafes are staffed by foreigners. This is a quirk of the German employment system, a scarcity of staff, and the wide availability of expats in need of gigs. Instead of hiring permanent staff and paying them a salary, it's less risky to have temporary workers. However, you can't do that endlessly with the same people in the German system. You would have…

That is only correct for a very small number of hip cafes and restaurants in certain districts tbh. You can employ germans indefinitely without "proper" contract as well through something called "Minijob" and the majority of cafes and restaurant skirt the law and let you work without paying taxes "illegally". Most of the ppl working there are students or in between careers. Only a fraction of the staff will be employ…

My wife tried to check into a fancy hotel (nothing hip) in Berlin and the receptionist only spoke English (and presumably some other language). It's not just hipster restaurants.

Even when the person does speak German, they're often not a native speaker and speak better English.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#167

Post by AdamN »

jamil7 wrote: post #41
MandieD wrote: post #11

Observation of Berlin from the weekend I spent there last month: literally the only place I was better off speaking German rather than English was a Turkish cafe. Everywhere else? Too many people understood English far better than they did German, especially anywhere to do with tech. Some of the tech people I talked to were running into being otherwise eligible for a permanent residence permit, but not being able to…

It depends on where you are and what you're doing in the city. After a long enough time here, that lack of German starts to stunt or limit you to a degree. You'll end up in the same types of places with the same groups of people. Getting colleagues and friends to call places or answer letters or emails for you, or just stumbling along in broken German.

I don't think anybody 'wants' to not know German in Berlin - it's just that they've decided it's not worth the effort at all or they are ok with their A2 level even though it's obviously not ideal. I know trilingual people in Berlin who just aren't going to learn German, a fourth language, beyond A2.

I (native English speaker) personally aspire to getting to B2 from my current A2 though.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#168

Post by CalRobert »

As a native English speaker this is somewhat comforting since it means I can get around easily, but my family is planning to move to the Netherlands this summer and one thing that strikes me is how hard it will be to learn Dutch when virtually everyone seems to speak excellent English. I was looking for a summer camp for my daughter and was a little dismayed to realize they were an English-only summer camp - to help Dutch kids learn English. Hopefully she'll become fluent anyway (she's only 5).

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#169

Post by m_fayer »

pimeys wrote: post #107
G3rn0ti wrote: post #9

As a native Urberliner I am both flattered and confused by the fact so many young Americans choose to live in my home town. I always wondered what makes it so attractive to you. I mean, winters are miserable, the city is ugly compared to many others in Germany, the people are rather not friendly to each other, the German language is difficult to learn, our history is troublesome, German immigration laws still difficu…

I moved eleven years ago because I loved the party scene. Took me less than a month to find a huge apartment for under seven hundred a month from a nice neighborhood. Now I cannot move out anymore without doubling or tripling my rent. Also chose to study Rust instead of German, and been having so much work afterwards that I still haven't started my German studies. My husband speaks good German so that helps. The weat…

I could have written this word for word. Maybe we should do a cranky-HNers-of-Berlin meetup.

Some uneasy food for thought: we're not that far off from the brave lucky weirdos who moved to NYC in the 1970s and bought decrepit flats for a song, who now find themselves aged and bewildered among the billionaires, trying to afford groceries. Hopefully it won't progress quite that far, but NYC does show that capital isn't deterred by a little dysfunctional urban chaos.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#170

Post by AdamN »

friendlyHornet wrote: post #158
vr46 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at the local immigration office only a few weeks ago and German language skills are still very much required for PR. One doesn't need it for the family reunion visa and work permit, but does for PR. There is talk of dropping this requirement, but I'll believe it when I see it.

> There is talk of dropping this requirement, but I'll believe it when I see it. I really hope it doesn't get dropped; it is unreasonable to live permanently in a country without speaking the local language There are other types of residencies available if someone is an expat and doesn't plan on staying permanently And it's not like they're asking for a high fluency; with B1, you can barely hold a simple coherent con…

Germany doesn't really have permanent residency - it's more like 'indefinite' residency that is revoked when you leave the country for too long.

So basically what you're saying is that after a few years you need B1 to stay. It's not unreasonable but of course will have an impact on the economy and society just like any other large decision.

I live in Berlin and am A2, with my North Star being B2 German and am a US Citizen with no intention to switch to German citizenship. I'd like to not get kicked out though.

The real caveat though is that many of the people in Berlin who don't speak B1+ German are EU citizens and do not need a visa to live here.

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