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Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

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Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#551

Post by occoder »

Xelbair wrote: post #478
jjav wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what? You've got physical buttons? Big whoop. That physical button that takes 500ms to respond is still as dangerous. No, that's wrong. Problem with touchscreens is that (1) you need to look at them and (2) there is no tactile feedback of whether you pressed it or not and (3) you need to hover your arm in a moving car at just the right spot. Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems. If the ac…

It is not about 'looking and pushing' the button. It's about stateful UI. physical layout of buttons is usually stateless - press button thing turns on, press it again it turns off. You don't need to think in which menu you are, and where to press, while driving.

> It is not about 'looking and pushing' the button.

> It's about stateful UI.

Yes it is about 'looking and pushing' the button.

And yes it's about stateful UI.

Both can be true at the same time.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#552

Post by Zanni »

seb1204 wrote: post #543
ryantgtg wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for me. I very rarely touch the screen while driving. And then after I do I’m like, “why didn’t I just a voice control for that?” I was pretty worried about getting a tesla because of the screen/controls, and I spent months only considering other brands. But! No regrets.

Do you also do AC control via voice?

Tesla support this. "Set temperature to 70."

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#553

Post by arethuza »

One thing I find weird is that on my Skoda the "infotainment" screen is fairly laggy - particularly when starting up. However, the "virtual cockpit" screen responds instantly - even though what it displays looks more complex than the infotainment screen.

Mind you the "virtual cockpit" isn't a touchscreen and button only (mostly on steering wheel).

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#554

Post by ISO-morphism »

JenrHywy wrote: post #397
ISO-morphism wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that the engineers are competent at developing software, and think that a lot of the quality issues are due to engineers abdicating authority over the software to managers and never saying "No, adding in that feature at this point in the timeline is going to make this a steaming pile of shit and I refuse to do it and still call myself a software engineer." I get that we have families to feed, but I've seen…

It's very rarely a developer's role to say outright "no". It's our role to make trade-offs understandable by decision-makers, and to clearly articulate why we think something is a bad idea. Sometimes (usually...) the broader business has different goals that just delivering quality software, and I think part of being a professional is understanding that. There is, of course, a time and a place for a hard "no". I've g…

I completely agree with you, and I think you've worded this better than I have.

I was trying to advocate for the middle path, where there's healthy communication from both sides, to the point that developers trust when "the business" makes a decision - not to the point of engineering completely blocking the, unquoted, business.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#555

Post by sd9 »

atoav wrote: post #538
Xelbair wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not about 'looking and pushing' the button. It's about stateful UI. physical layout of buttons is usually stateless - press button thing turns on, press it again it turns off. You don't need to think in which menu you are, and where to press, while driving.

> physical layout of buttons is usually stateless - press button thing turns on, press it again it turns off Not to be pedantic, but that is a state. But I get what you mean: the button has a fixed place. Know your car well enough and you won't even need to look there to turn the thing off or on.

> stateful UI

OP means that the screen has different modes that you traverse between, the car is still stateful.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#556

Post by geraldwhen »

alkonaut wrote: post #362
Transfinity wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no incentive for an engineer to do that. Saying yes and delivering crap gets you a bonus, hard truths get you shuffled around or made redundant. There's no real consequence for delivering crap, so that's what happens. Contrast this with other engineering fields, where the engineer is truly responsible for the decisions they make. My civil engineer friends face losing their licenses, fines or jail time if they…

The incentive is having a rewarding job where you develop products you are proud of. Once I have food to eat, this is by far the most important incentive for me and it greatly outweighs e.g my desire for promotions, raises and bonuses. If I can have both, great. If I need to choose one, it’s the fulfilling job and product pride every day.

No thanks. I’ve got a family to support for at least 18 more years, and I could be laid off at any second.

I need to make as much money as possible in the little time as possible, and the best way to do this is to stop worrying and learn to love the bomb.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#557

Post by shellfishgene »

bjarneh wrote: post #492
duckmysick wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that induction? The product page says "Elektrisk platetopp" and not "Induksjonstopper". I'm looking for an induction top or an oven combo with knobs and it's difficult.

> Is that induction? The product page says "Elektrisk platetopp" and not "Induksjonstopper". No, it's not induction. The BOSCH stoves with induction all have that nutty touch interface :/

There is a bunch of Bosch induction models in the Series 4 that allow knob control from the oven.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#558

Post by moffkalast »

nvilcins wrote: post #499
checkyoursudo wrote: post #393

With. A. Passion. Other touch screens (or similar things) I dislike: - the controls on my stove top - the controls on my monitor - the controls on my tv - the controls on my thermostat - probably more All of these should have physical buttons for the limited number of functions required. Or, at a minimum, for navigation and confirmation. Touch screens there suck. My wife's car has a touch screen on the control/infota…

The elevator in our apartment building has a touch-button(?) panel. Guess what happens during the cold season when you you've got your gloves on? Yep, absolutely nothing! (bonus f.u. points if you are carrying stuff and cannot easily take the gloves off) Luckily have a fully analogue car so I'm maintaining my sanity somewhat.

You guys don't have capacitive gloves so you can use your phone while wearing them?

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#559

Post by bolanyo »

emodendroket wrote: post #445
hilbert42 wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My civil engineer friends face losing their licenses, fines or jail time if they are found professionally negligent." These standards ought to be applied more widely and done in conjunction with tightened consumer law. In many cases the quality of electronics equipment has gone to the dogs. I could give instances of appliances I use that can only be used in a hobbled mode—numbers of published functions simply don't…

I don't think jail time for making software too bloated and slow for your liking is a serious proposal.

I'm not a strong advocate of this, or of jail time in general for non-violent offenders, but as a thought experiment, suppose that Acme Auto release updates to their car's software which make the UI more laggy and less intuitive to navigate. After they do, there are a cluster of similar accidents - distracted driver hits a pedestrian when they should have stopped. These can be shown statistically to affect Acme models with the software updates significantly more than any other make of car, and more than Acmes which don't have the update. A class action lawsuit is started against Acme by both crash victims and drivers. In discovery, correspondence between software engineers is found. Engineer A writes to Product Manager B and says that they don't think the new build is safe, because they were forced to compromise latency performance, and button placement is now more surprising, having changed again. QA Engineer C chimes in and says that since the changes apply to features critical to driving such as de-misting, they won't be prepared to sign off on the change. PM B says that they have to go with the new version in order to meet internal targets on engagement with entertainment apps. They overrule A and C, as company rules allow them to do.

Do you think B should face any personal consequences within a public justice system? Or Acme is just liable for a big payout and then upper management decide who takes the blame?

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#560

Post by zamnos »

TheFragenTaken wrote: post #533
jjav wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what? You've got physical buttons? Big whoop. That physical button that takes 500ms to respond is still as dangerous. No, that's wrong. Problem with touchscreens is that (1) you need to look at them and (2) there is no tactile feedback of whether you pressed it or not and (3) you need to hover your arm in a moving car at just the right spot. Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems. If the ac…

The fact that these cars pass safety certification, makes me question certifiers. It's illegal to look at your phone while driving, for good reason, but it's legal to fiddle with a damn computer screen, because it's part of the car. I predict it's a matter of time before we'll see a correlation between number of crashes, and cars with touchscreens.

Do auto insurance rates on touch screen cars show this to be the case? Cars with touch screens have been around long enough that they should have data, and consequently be charging more for insurance on those cars if they are is that is indeed the case.
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