I am more disturbed by the fact that the infrastructure was already in place to instantly block Telegram as soon as a judge ordered it.
Hm? Every ISP is able to block websites. This happens constantly, specially with piracy-related websites.
Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
91–100 of 245 posts
Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
You and JP Barlow's Declaration of Independence of Cyberspace can have words. There's 195 nations on this planet. Should every company lower themselves below every nation? Without question? There's far more provinces with some lawmaking capability. How logistically do we even begin to figure out how to obey each & every single local rule? These nations are on the internet. It's an unplace to connect all places. If yo…
> There's 195 nations on this planet. Should every company lower themselves below every nation? Without question? My honest response to this would be: “yes, if they want to do business in said country”. Otherwise we end up where we’ve been, with Facebook being the sole way to access internet in some places. Why should an organization seeking to make a profit hold more sway than the institutions that allow such a prof…
I don't understand why voltaireodactyl's comment was downvoted because he or she is pretty much on the right track with respect to the current legal regimes. Those still promoting Barlow's ideas in 2023 are living in a fantasy world.
Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#93Doesn't this sound like a dictatorship?
The word "dictatorship" doesn't actually mean anything. Its sole purpose is to attack certain institutions and/or governments, while excluding other institutions and governments from criticism even though they share most or all of the same characteristics. Instead of asking whether or not XYZ is a dictatorship, ask "are they following their own laws and constitution?", "are they respecting universal human rights?", a…
> Instead of asking whether or not XYZ is a dictatorship, ask "are they following their own laws and constitution?"
They are not. Censorship is unconstitutional in Brazil, especially that of a political nature. Yet I don't think it's been a month since I last saw news of some politician being banned from holding office because they posted "fake news" online or something.
Basically the strategy now is to criminalize "fake news", accuse your opponents of spreading it and deplatform them because criminals can't hold political office. Show me the man, I'll show you the crime.
Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#94Doesn't this sound like a dictatorship?
No, it sounds like a civil law country dealing with a recalcitrant business. I think the judge is reaching a bit but I don't know much about Brazil's legal code. Common law countries tend to be extremely accommodating of business entities because they're obsessed with procedure (imho) to the detriment of doing any enforcement. Civil law jurisdictions take the approach of 'we need compliance up front, we can quibble about legal liability afterwards.' Common law countries demand high levels of personal accountability but have elaborate mechanics for distributing accountability across organizations that (again imho) allow the creation of private quasi-sovereignty, and they maintain this in part because it attracts capital to those countries.
Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#95Supposedly it's about the children. Sao Paulo solved the problem: > Many Brazilian states didn’t wait for the federal response. Sao Paulo, for example, temporarily hired 550 psychologists to attend to its public schools, and hired 1,000 private security guards. https://apnews.com/article/brazil-school-violence-guns-attac... This is what disgruntled poor people did in China, too, used a $5 hatchet. You don't even need…
You are correct. Brazilian had a CIA backed dictatorship during cold War, and when it ended people made sure to make a constitution that would prevent another one. Sadly the constitution is being ignored for a while now, the current government is strongly against free speech, the previous government also had issues. Meanwhile the Supreme Court are the ones that really hate the constitution, for example a guy was arre…
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Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#96No company should think it's above the national laws
"Every company should implement mass censorship and encourage countries to overstep" This is a really weak defeatist position. Brazil's administration is attempting to silence opposition voices, this has nothing to do with Nazis. Much like the EU uses "hate speech" laws to silence mass immigration skeptics, this is a political measure to silence people.
Are you saying all the opposition are nazi?
Because this was literally a nazi group called ""卐 Frente Anti-Semita 卐""
Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't think Telegram has a legal presence in Brazil though. How are they going to enforce the fine? You're commenting on the news of their enforcement. They are completely fine with blocking Telegram nation-wide until they reveal the user data and pay the fine. Don't give me that "good luck" speech either. The article mentions the same judges blocked Telegram last year. I submitted news of that here and people he…
Paying the fine could be a reasonable decision, depending on their priorities. Paying the fine and providing the user data basically renders the whole service pointless, right? It is better to be blocked in Brazil than to be useless everywhere I guess.
> Paying the fine and providing the user data basically renders the whole service pointless, right? It is better to be blocked in Brazil than to be useless everywhere I guess.
I would hope so. Apparently not.
Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#98I am more disturbed by the fact that the infrastructure was already in place to instantly block Telegram as soon as a judge ordered it.
It's been in place for decades. Nearly a decade ago I posted here on HN about brazilian judges blocking WhatsApp nationwide.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2016/05/03/whatsapp-...
Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#99No company should think it's above the national laws
No national laws should think they are above freedom of expression and the right to privacy.
OK, now define those things in an unambiguous way such that countries can come together in agreement over what constitutes expression, where the lines are with respect to slander/libel, what constitutes incitement, harassment... is money expression? Are lies in advertising protected?
These simple declarations of what people feel is true and right are ... I dunno, is the right expression "charmingly naive"?
Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm fairly certain it is deeply connected to Russia. Just as Signal, Facebook, Google, WhatsApp are deeply connected to the USA? > People believe it's encrypted but it's not for group chats or default for direct chats. The cloud and E2EE encryption of Telegram have already been audited by independent researchers. > They have money when Telegram is expensive to run They literally raised money (a billion dollars) by…
The server side is still proprietary. They could have just given "dummied" source code to "independent researchers". Chances are ALWAYS against regular people.
How would that make any difference if the traffic is end to end encrypted, though?
Maybe they do something with the metadata, but so can every other messaging service.
This paranoia that everything is linked to Russia is just nuts.