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Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

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Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#71

Post by cjalmeida »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #41
schoen wrote: post #32

This has happened several times before with other services: https://bloqueios.info/en/timeline/ Unfortunately this site hasn't been updated since 2016, but I don't think that's because these kinds of orders have stopped being issued. They've previously been issued on various occasions by a state judge when a company either ignores or says it can't technically comply with a subpoena or injunction in a court case, and…

This time the DNS block was ordered directly by a supreme court judge. No one can overturn that. Also, the political scenario was different. Brazil used to at least pretend to be a democracy with a constitution and rule of law. Since then, these supreme court judges have done far worse than block some messaging service. This is literally nothing to people like them.

Order was issued by a trial federal judge (1a instância). Please stop spreading conspiracy misinformation.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#72

Post by dancemethis »

LewisVerstappen wrote: post #67
dancemethis wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't, really. It's specifically because Telegram failed to deliver all the requested information on certain nazi propaganda spreader groups.

Who defined nazi propaganda spreader groups? Who draws the line? First Nazi propaganda spreaders, then gay rights activists? Sounds extremely dangerous to have this kind of centralized control.

Sorry, but if one is directly stating nazi ideals, symbols, denying the ocurrence of hate crimes, spreading information on how to create weapons and more effectively invade schools to "go for the high score", one isn't a gay rights activist. It's a nazi.

It's not a situation where people who just didn't get enough information (or downright wackos) can try and relativize the contents. It's quite, quite clear.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#73

Post by voltaireodactyl »

rektide wrote: post #46
voltaireodactyl wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's 195 nations on this planet. Should every company lower themselves below every nation? Without question? My honest response to this would be: “yes, if they want to do business in said country”. Otherwise we end up where we’ve been, with Facebook being the sole way to access internet in some places. Why should an organization seeking to make a profit hold more sway than the institutions that allow such a prof…

To me it's up to nations to determine whether they want to be connected to the rest of the planet. If you want to make a bunch of rules for yourself, you get what we have here, I hope: your country having to shut off that part of the internet. You phrase it as doing business. But to me, these people in these other places are coming to us. They are connected to us. The onus is not on the rest of the world to adapt our…

In your scenario, you’re calling this the opposite of an expansion. But aren’t the companies literally “expanding” into these countries? Otherwise, what’s the issue? Unless you’re saying they should have sway regardless of whether they’re doing business there or not?

And to be clear it is “doing business”. Nobody is forcing companies to ship anywhere they don’t want to. Nobody is forcing them to allow IP connections from countries they do not operate in. The internet connects us all, sure, but to accept payment for any service, that company must have a financial relationship in place within that country — or with another country that’s already doing business with the first.

And I must disagree about the EIC being inapplicable. There is not so great a difference between weaponizing dopamine and transporting opium.

I’m truly not trying to be inflammatory here, fwiw, and I appreciate your perspective and the way you’ve gone about conveying it. I just disagree with your premises on a fundamental level.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#74

Post by dancemethis »

0xy wrote: post #23
whatsu wrote: post #2

No company should think it's above the national laws

"Every company should implement mass censorship and encourage countries to overstep" This is a really weak defeatist position. Brazil's administration is attempting to silence opposition voices, this has nothing to do with Nazis. Much like the EU uses "hate speech" laws to silence mass immigration skeptics, this is a political measure to silence people.

Nah, it has all to do with nazis this time.

The current government isn't like the last one, that actually used the intelligence machine to attack opposition voices.

Law kind of exists.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#75

Post by cjalmeida »

LewisVerstappen wrote: post #67
dancemethis wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't, really. It's specifically because Telegram failed to deliver all the requested information on certain nazi propaganda spreader groups.

Who defined nazi propaganda spreader groups? Who draws the line? First Nazi propaganda spreaders, then gay rights activists? Sounds extremely dangerous to have this kind of centralized control.

The Telegram group is literally called “Brazilian Anti-semite Movement”. I don’t think they were sharing pot pie recipes there…

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#76

Post by codersfocus »

karp773 wrote: post #33
karp773 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Blocking" in Russia was nothing else than an internal drill by KGB to check robustness to possible blocking in the target fields of operations, e.g. Brazil. If Russia TRULY wanted to block Telegram, then Mr. Durov, who accidentally operates from and resides in Russia, would have been kidnapped and tortured until Telegram goes down or he hands the keys over to KGB. Since Durov is still alive and free... the conclusio…

It's funny how such trivially obvious things may cause so much hate and denial. No free media in Russia?! Shocker!

[flagged]

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#77

Post by cjalmeida »

Georgelemental wrote: post #47
whatsu wrote: post #2

No company should think it's above the national laws

No national laws should think they are above freedom of expression and the right to privacy.

Unabridged, borderline irresponsible freedom of expression is granted only in the US. Some Canadian truckers found this out the hard way

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#78

Post by cjalmeida »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #62
whatsu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Nazism? What a laugh. Here's the real reason for these blocks: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/08/world/americas/brazil-tel...

This is literally about nazism. Here’s a copy of the decision in PT https://www.conjur.com.br/dl/telegram-decisao-suspensao.pdf

Please stop spreading misinformation

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