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Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

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Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#291

Post by prng2021 »

sircastor wrote: post #229
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #189

I wouldn't mind touchscreens as long as these imbecile developers would strictly limit UI response time to under 16ms. In no world where you're barrelling 3,000+ lbs of mass at tens of miles an hour should you be distracted by some moronic app or subsystem failing to respond in time because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." Any software running as a part of a motor vehicle should be federally…

> because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." I used to be an infotainment software engineer for an Auto maker. There’s this idea in the software industry that because the software behaves poorly on your car’s system, it must’ve been written poorly by someone who didn’t know what they were doing. In my experience it was almost always a matter of the hardware being stretched way past its limits.…

It's great to get your perspective on this. Aside from the GPS/navigation features, aren't car infotainment systems extremely basic?

We've been controlling heating, cooling, audio source, and audio volume since the dawn of time.

How are technical requirements related to these basic functions changing such that their UIs haven't been absolutely perfected by now? Is the entire infotainment code being rewritten all the time so there's no chance to iterate and improve on the previous versions work?

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#292

Post by jes5199 »

hunter2_ wrote: post #231
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't how tactile buttons in modern cars work. You're doing the same thing as pushing keys on a keyboard. The software can still be slow. Turn the physical volume dial on a car with a slow Apple CarPlay interface and tell me how that works out for you. Oh, it's too loud? But it takes 2 seconds for the software to respond due to lag and now you're fiddling with the volume button trying to not make it worse? A phy…

You turn the physical dial, and regardless of the outcome, you know that your input was received by the HCI, so you don't need to wonder if you should try again. If it worked, great; if not, oh well; no need to look at it and try again though. That's the benefit.

I’ve used car stereos where the physical volume knob was so laggy and buggy that sometimes it would misread its own input and change the volume in the wrong direction unless you turned it very slowly while watching the display to see if it was registering. People will absolutely find a way to fuck it up.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#293

Post by jes5199 »

sircastor wrote: post #229
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #189

I wouldn't mind touchscreens as long as these imbecile developers would strictly limit UI response time to under 16ms. In no world where you're barrelling 3,000+ lbs of mass at tens of miles an hour should you be distracted by some moronic app or subsystem failing to respond in time because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." Any software running as a part of a motor vehicle should be federally…

> because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." I used to be an infotainment software engineer for an Auto maker. There’s this idea in the software industry that because the software behaves poorly on your car’s system, it must’ve been written poorly by someone who didn’t know what they were doing. In my experience it was almost always a matter of the hardware being stretched way past its limits.…

the thing is, even the brightest of us are still terrible. There’s no such thing as a good software developer

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#295

Post by Merad »

netsharc wrote: post #75
exabrial wrote: post #17

Pro Tip: So do ER Doctors and Insurance Companies. What would be best is something along the lines of a hybrid aircraft controls. See F/A-18 Hornet cockpit. Basically tactile buttons around the perimeter (maybe just side or bottom for consumer), but the options can change. Also for consumers, touchscreen should be a value-add to tactile controls, with hardware buttons as primary. So you could touch-scroll with a fing…

Cockpit UI like on the F/A-18 are called Multifunction Displays or MFDs, but wouldn't they be terrible UI as well, until you memorize the sequence of buttons to do something? You'd still have to look at the display to see what the submenu options are. Apparently they're available for flight sim games, if I had the time and know-how, it'd be neat to bu one (e.g. on AliExpress) and integrate it to my car: https://www.y…

Fighters like the Hornet use HOTAS (Hands On Throttle And Stick) which places buttons, 4-way switches, or other controls (mini joysticks, etc.) under most of the fingers. So pilots have something like 30+ commands that they can perform at any time without moving their hands. Interacting with MFD's would mostly happen when the plane is cruising straight and level, probably on autopilot.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#296

Post by ggm »

I live with somebody who glitches many touch screens. I don't know if its fingernails, softness of touch, tremor, press time, strength, hesitency, its just not a good experience for them. Ever.

They are the best driver. By far. Distance separation, 3-cars ahead aware, road wise, maintains situational awareness. They got driving.

I do the touch screen shit. Its voice activated, let my fingers do the walkin'

Seriously if they could get a car with only mecha buttons and knobs they'd be significantly better off. Otherwise, it's down to the co-pilot for that stuff, Driver's got drivin eyes for the road, no time to waste on touch screen.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#297

Post by mike_d »

bushbaba wrote: post #284
overgard wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, those backup cameras are super useful though, and the screen can be small. My 2013 Kia has mostly physical buttons and like an 8 inch or so touchscreen (that I never touch). I would hate losing that camera. Plus those screens can be useful for safety. I much prefer the screen on my dashboard for maps compared to having it on my phone (even with a mount it's bouncy and small)

But a small screen feels 'cheap' and for many ruins that car's experience.

A small screen isn't going to ruin the otherwise luxury experience of a Hyundai or Kia.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#298

Post by yotamoron »

Finally, some sense.

Personally, I want a car with as little interaction as possible. Sometimes I feel like a machine operator and not just a driver, especially when it's raining or when I need to defrost the windshield - constant hassling with whatever just to make things work.

How the hell is this progress? I want a car that does all the simple things for me - turn on the wipers at the right speed when its raining, defrost the windshield, knows when to heat/cool the car etc etc. You know - just learn me and do it. This recent (10+ years) idea of adding more and more levers and buttons and cool screens to a car, to a point where it looks like an F-15 cockpit, might appeal to under-developed young males, but I really had enough. When I was younger, when you got into a new car, it took 2 minutes before you understood everything that needs to be understood and could safely driver with it. Now days you have to spend 10-15 minutes just to understand how to release the parking brake.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#299

Post by switchbak »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #237
sircastor wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." I used to be an infotainment software engineer for an Auto maker. There’s this idea in the software industry that because the software behaves poorly on your car’s system, it must’ve been written poorly by someone who didn’t know what they were doing. In my experience it was almost always a matter of the hardware being stretched way past its limits.…

That still just sounds like people not knowing what they're doing. In no world would automakers say, "Hey you know, we just did all of this tire engineering with this rubber, but let's change the composition at the last minute and not retest all of its physical properties." So, why should it be any different with software? Because some sucker PM didn't have the brains to say, "We can't actually do that."?

I know you're getting a lot of pushback here, but you're totally right. Qt (among others) has been a thing in the embedded space for decades, and we've had snappy UIs on sub gigahertz CPUs for decades. I just don't buy that's it's a matter of under specced hardware.

I'd actually buy that it's more a matter of the corporate sausage making machine that turns ok hardware and talented developers with good intentions into an output of barely usable poorly performing crap. Ie: exactly how we end up with something like Spotify.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#300

Post by speedgoose »

natch wrote: post #151
wildrhythms wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking your eyes off the road to adjust the AC is a terrible UX. And as for 'voice commands' bless your heart to imagine every car doesn't have screaming kids in the back seat or a driver with a heavy accent. I want a knob.

Fortunately AC starts out on auto which works great even while your kids are screaming.

Yes I don’t think many people actually often need to fiddle the AC settings while driving. And that would be a very seldomly used knob when you have a good automatic AC.
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