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Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

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Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#261

Post by teeray »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #237
sircastor wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." I used to be an infotainment software engineer for an Auto maker. There’s this idea in the software industry that because the software behaves poorly on your car’s system, it must’ve been written poorly by someone who didn’t know what they were doing. In my experience it was almost always a matter of the hardware being stretched way past its limits.…

That still just sounds like people not knowing what they're doing. In no world would automakers say, "Hey you know, we just did all of this tire engineering with this rubber, but let's change the composition at the last minute and not retest all of its physical properties." So, why should it be any different with software? Because some sucker PM didn't have the brains to say, "We can't actually do that."?

It feels like there’s some derision towards the infotainment software engineering since it’s perceived as not safety critical. It’s in the name, “infotainment”! Fun and optional! It’s not like you’re working on the PFD/MFD/EICAS on an Airbus. “So what, the seat heater button lags sometimes. Not gonna kill someone like the tires. Ship it” says some MBA higher-up.

But then the seats kick on automatically when the car starts and the driver tucks in with her morning coffee for a commute down the highway. The coffee kicks in, the cabin heats up, and suddenly that warm seat is like sitting on a griddle. She taps on the menu to bring up the seat controls, then lag, then has to hit the seat heat button twice to go from “high” to “low” to “off”, lagging each time. Oh, she hit it three times, now it’s on high again. Tap, tap, tap, tap… Meanwhile she has crossed three lanes of traffic and is staring down a jersey barrier at 70+ mph.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#263

Post by seanmcdirmid »

anderspitman wrote: post #262

Touchscreens are great for developers, but generally terrible for users.

They are cheap, let’s face it. Knobs and switches with wiring cost money, space, and weight. A flat screen plus voice input is simply an economy to save money, space, and weight.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#264

Post by adrr »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #189

I wouldn't mind touchscreens as long as these imbecile developers would strictly limit UI response time to under 16ms. In no world where you're barrelling 3,000+ lbs of mass at tens of miles an hour should you be distracted by some moronic app or subsystem failing to respond in time because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." Any software running as a part of a motor vehicle should be federally…

I don’t know that would be helpful. I hate digging through my Tesla’s menus to control the wipers even though it is very responsive.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#265

Post by rsync »

ambicapter wrote: post #254
morkalork wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did back up cameras save that many lives?

I assume somebody's kid got ran over by a parent backing up into them and they then channeled their guilt and grief into lobbying for such a law.

"After His Son’s Tragic Death, This Doctor Fought to Put Backup Cameras In Every Car"[1]

"He had gone under the vehicle, I had gone right over his head and killed him. I jumped out of the car, tried to do CPR.” Gulbransen can still taste his blood in his mouth, remembers the way Cameron bled from his nose, his ears. “I knew at that moment he was dead.”"

[1] https://www.kidsandcars.org/2018/05/14/after-his-sons-tragic...

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#266

Post by gonehome »

adrr wrote: post #264
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #189

I wouldn't mind touchscreens as long as these imbecile developers would strictly limit UI response time to under 16ms. In no world where you're barrelling 3,000+ lbs of mass at tens of miles an hour should you be distracted by some moronic app or subsystem failing to respond in time because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." Any software running as a part of a motor vehicle should be federally…

I don’t know that would be helpful. I hate digging through my Tesla’s menus to control the wipers even though it is very responsive.

You can put the wipers icon at the bottom bar now, that makes it much better.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#267

Post by tomxor »

tiedieconderoga wrote: post #107
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Touch screens are great for stuff that needs to be cleaned though so ER doctors are probably stuck with them.

I could be wrong, but I think I've seen removable silicone membrane covers over mechanical buttons in some pieces of medical equipment. Silicone is inexpensive and suitable for cookware that gets exposed to heat. I bet that sort of thing could survive an autoclave.

Yeah, those have been around for decades on all kinds of old specialised keyboards and equipment... The real reason stuff trends towards touch screens is people trying to keep the BOM cost low without considering cost to the user.

A generic touch screen with dynamic controls is cheaper than a larger custom made keyboard or physical controls. It's the same reason we end up with power inefficient IoT devices that could be made with very cheap and efficient microcontrollers, but developing for those requires expensive expertise, so we end up with huge powerful ARM cores because it's more general and easier to code.

The common factor in both of these issues is cost to manufacturer vs cost to user (power, safety etc).

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#268

Post by seanmcdirmid »

mtrpcic wrote: post #204
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #189

I wouldn't mind touchscreens as long as these imbecile developers would strictly limit UI response time to under 16ms. In no world where you're barrelling 3,000+ lbs of mass at tens of miles an hour should you be distracted by some moronic app or subsystem failing to respond in time because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." Any software running as a part of a motor vehicle should be federally…

The benefit of buttons isn't in the response time, it's in the tactile feedback that makes it so you don't need 16ms response time. I heard it click, I felt it click, it clicked. If the thing I wanted to happen doesn't, it's because it's broken and not because I can't tell if I clicked the right spot on my iPad. Not having to take your eyes off the road in these cases is the benefit of buttons, and no improvement to…

A lot the knobs and buttons these days are digital anyways. So there is no real tactile feedback, since they are just activating some digital function anyways.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#269

Post by tjohns »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #198
cameldrv wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of small aircraft controls have moved to touchscreens, and they're terrible, especially in turbulence.

Isn't it the job of the faa to regulate every conceivable safety issue out of existence? Why did they let touchscreen controls through the net?

Because they're not really a safety issue in an aircraft.

When you're in cruise flight, things happen slowly. Heck, on a pre-touchscreen general aviation GPS unit, you dial waypoints in one letter at a time with a single rotary knob. As annoying as the touchscreen is, it's still an improvement - and you still get your single rotary knob in case things are turbulent, so it's no really any worse.

Takeoff/landing is a different story. Things happen quickly there. But you're also not messing with the avionics during those phases of flight.

As the saying goes: aviate, navigate, communicate - in that order. Touchscreens are mostly the realm of navigation and (sometimes) communication.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#270

Post by jojobas »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #221
mtrpcic wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefit of buttons isn't in the response time, it's in the tactile feedback that makes it so you don't need 16ms response time. I heard it click, I felt it click, it clicked. If the thing I wanted to happen doesn't, it's because it's broken and not because I can't tell if I clicked the right spot on my iPad. Not having to take your eyes off the road in these cases is the benefit of buttons, and no improvement to…

This isn't how tactile buttons in modern cars work. You're doing the same thing as pushing keys on a keyboard. The software can still be slow. Turn the physical volume dial on a car with a slow Apple CarPlay interface and tell me how that works out for you. Oh, it's too loud? But it takes 2 seconds for the software to respond due to lag and now you're fiddling with the volume button trying to not make it worse? A phy…

If only it was possible to adjust the volume without talking to the phone - heresy, I know. Having your phone decide how loud or quiet it should be playing is rather stupid anyway.
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