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Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

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Re: Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

#91

Post by jacob019 »

bheadmaster wrote: post #9
tsunamifury wrote: post #2

I think it’s wild and deeply inspiring to imagine how the surface of the earth had radically different forms over billions of years. Huge landscapes of unrotted dead plants. Then massive landscapes of fungus and decomposing bacteria breaking that down into dirt. And on and on. I think it is wise to understand that earth has been through many eras and is not as homeostatic as our narrowly imagined “natural” state we s…

It's somewhat odd that one has to explicitly say they're not "anti-climate change" when presenting any kind of perspective that could be perceived as such. As if they're afraid of the somebody punishing them for daring to think such "problematic" and "destructive" thoughts...

During the Trump era, conspiracy theories became a prominent part of mainstream conversation, while scientific knowledge was often dismissed as just one perspective among many. In my opinion, a societal culture that treats truth as malleable poses a greater threat than individuals on the internet who are hesitant to publicly express anti-scientific beliefs.

Re: Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

#93

Post by meindnoch »

rektide wrote: post #5
tsunamifury wrote: post #2

I think it’s wild and deeply inspiring to imagine how the surface of the earth had radically different forms over billions of years. Huge landscapes of unrotted dead plants. Then massive landscapes of fungus and decomposing bacteria breaking that down into dirt. And on and on. I think it is wise to understand that earth has been through many eras and is not as homeostatic as our narrowly imagined “natural” state we s…

I really like this comment & it has a lot going for it. At the same time I think it's also worth pointing out that earth has likely never had as diverse an ecosystem as it has this millennium. The tree of life has become incredibly wide & complex. The naturalist tendency doesn't have to be as static as portrayed here. Nature itself is such a dynamic & changing system death & population booms chasing each other around…

>At the same time I think it's also worth pointing out that earth has likely never had as diverse an ecosystem as it has this millennium.

Lol, no.

Today is not in any way more/less special than any of the preceding 350million years. We obviously know more, because today's animals don't need to be dug out from the ground as fossils.

Re: Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

#94

Post by Loughla »

psychphysic wrote: post #28
bheadmaster wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's somewhat odd that one has to explicitly say they're not "anti-climate change" when presenting any kind of perspective that could be perceived as such. As if they're afraid of the somebody punishing them for daring to think such "problematic" and "destructive" thoughts...

The real effect of cancel culture is the chilling effect it has even on relatively anonymous conversation. Humans are social beings and the spectre that someone could be outcast for sounding like they are from the wrong clan is an innate phobia.

What I find fascinating about the current debates about cancel culture is that it ignores, on both sides, the fact that it isn't new. The only thing that has changed is the balance of power.

From a US perspective - In the past, social shunning and ostracizing was used as a way to norm the culture for the predominately white, christian culture. Cancel culture was literally being run out of your town, and/or excluded from social and religious events. This had a huge chilling effect.

Now, the power belongs to a previously marginalized group (lgbtq/minority individuals) to 'cancel' people.

It's not new; the only difference is that the people who used to have to power are pissed that their views aren't the popular views anymore. It's a symptom of a massive societal change that has occurred and the subset of people who refuse to let go of their outdated ways.

Re: Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

#95

Post by beginnings »

jacob019 wrote: post #91
bheadmaster wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's somewhat odd that one has to explicitly say they're not "anti-climate change" when presenting any kind of perspective that could be perceived as such. As if they're afraid of the somebody punishing them for daring to think such "problematic" and "destructive" thoughts...

During the Trump era, conspiracy theories became a prominent part of mainstream conversation, while scientific knowledge was often dismissed as just one perspective among many. In my opinion, a societal culture that treats truth as malleable poses a greater threat than individuals on the internet who are hesitant to publicly express anti-scientific beliefs.

[flagged]

Re: Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

#97

Post by Balgair »

tsunamifury wrote: post #2

I think it’s wild and deeply inspiring to imagine how the surface of the earth had radically different forms over billions of years. Huge landscapes of unrotted dead plants. Then massive landscapes of fungus and decomposing bacteria breaking that down into dirt. And on and on. I think it is wise to understand that earth has been through many eras and is not as homeostatic as our narrowly imagined “natural” state we s…

PBS Eons on YT does a good job of diving into the many and extreme phases that Earth has seen. Check it out! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1LdMWlNYS4&list=PLi6K9w_Ubf...

Also, Darwin wrote a lot about the extreme variations that we see in the 'balanced' ecosystem. He tallied up the birds near him and found that ~4/5ths of all the birds would die every winter. He remarked that a 10% death rate illness in humans would be considered a huge event, but that every year, nearly all the birds near him just up and die. This was in a passage on how the 'balance' that we see is really just a lot of species furiously competing with each other and trying to eek out minuscule improvements in the deadly chaos.

Re: Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

#99

Post by bheadmaster »

Loughla wrote: post #47
bheadmaster wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand why you said it. It just seems that the general atmosphere of the internet is that of self-censorship and fear. It just doesn't sit well with me. The intolerance of different views is driving the hostile and divisive atmosphere in the social media. Let's say there's a person who's really anti-climate change. How is that person supposed to change their mind, if they get attacked every time they voice thei…

Legitimately, do you believe that people posting on internet forums is an effective means of getting someone to change their minds? My take is that by the time the poster goes through the effort to post, they have adopted [insert view here] into their personal belief system; they're not seeking answers. Don't most studies show that fact based arguments only cause people with faulty beliefs to dig in further?

> Legitimately, do you believe that people posting on internet forums is an effective means of getting someone to change their minds?

Some percentage of them? Yes. Unfortunately, there's no way to know when that happens, so it's very easy to assume it doesn't.

> My take is that by the time the poster goes through the effort to post, they have adopted [insert view here] into their personal belief system; they're not seeking answers.

If what you're saying is true, what's the logic behind censoring people? Nobody is able to convince anyone of anything anyway.

Re: Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

#100

Post by nradov »

miroljub wrote: post #58
achr2 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I am misinterpreting the tone, but this is an incongruous belief. Nothing about a chaotic system precludes a *trend* in that system. I think it is quite objectively clear that while extremely chaotic, the trend of recent human impact on the earth is an equally extreme destruction of natural habitats.

Our planet is both chaotic and stable, depending on the timescale we are looking at. Chaotic on the long timescale, but pretty stable given the much shorter timescale of known human history.

If you believe that then I think you haven't spent much time out in nature. Some wild species populations boom and crash in chaotic ways even in areas that haven't been impacted much by humans. Nature is far from stable on any time scale longer than a year.
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