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Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

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Re: Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

#41

Post by glitchc »

tsunamifury wrote: post #2

I think it’s wild and deeply inspiring to imagine how the surface of the earth had radically different forms over billions of years. Huge landscapes of unrotted dead plants. Then massive landscapes of fungus and decomposing bacteria breaking that down into dirt. And on and on. I think it is wise to understand that earth has been through many eras and is not as homeostatic as our narrowly imagined “natural” state we s…

Thank you! People don't realize how much of a blip we are in Earth's long history, and trying to hold on to what we are used to i.e. conservatism, is actually the most unnatural thing to do.

Re: Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

#42

Post by lo_zamoyski »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #16
shisisms wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. And beyond that human life assumes it’s own sentience through an incredibly narrow view. Isn’t it fair/logical to assume that if giant mushrooms did over the earth that given the passing of considerable time they’ve likely evolved to a far more considerable state of intelligence/harmony than humans have. Their survivability/adaptability being an illustration. Likewise, one ends up sounding like an anti…

the fear is of the threat to humans and the human livability of the planet, not for the planet itself, which will still be fine after we all die not sure what's arrogant about that, it's a bit of perspective

Indeed. This sort of misanthropic talk is shockingly incoherent and absurd. For starters, demeaning human life automatically undermines the value of any life, even more drastically than how acceptance of infanticide undermines all human rights. The notion of sacrificing ourselves for "the planet" is pure nonsense.

Most of this talk is unthinking affectation and empty emotionalism, I suspect, something you might expect a mopey teenager to say, but it does betray some degree of viciousness. Envy and pride come to mind.

Re: Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

#43

Post by inpdx »

tsunamifury wrote: post #22
C-x_C-f wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> earth has likely never had as diverse an ecosystem as it has this millennium Don't worry, we can fix that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

I think your flippant response here robs us of a conversation as to why we do this — what larger purpose does it serve in the macro scale mentioned earlier. Is earth a set of short term optimized life leading to different eras or are humans the first sentient life that must take responsibility for it. If so how and with what goals. For our own preservation? To freeze all life as it is today?

No other species has had this great of an impact on that many species. If we were wise and thoughtful, collectively we could both advance ourselves and allow the diversity to continue. So it's a shame we aren't.

Re: Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

#44

Post by louison11 »

bena wrote: post #29
tsunamifury wrote: post #2

I think it’s wild and deeply inspiring to imagine how the surface of the earth had radically different forms over billions of years. Huge landscapes of unrotted dead plants. Then massive landscapes of fungus and decomposing bacteria breaking that down into dirt. And on and on. I think it is wise to understand that earth has been through many eras and is not as homeostatic as our narrowly imagined “natural” state we s…

It's something George Carlin has touched on as well. Paraphrasing a bit: We're not really trying to save the planet. The planet has been here for billions of years, it'll be here for billions of years after we're all dead and gone. The planet will be fine. The people? The people are fucked. That's what we're trying to save. We're trying to keep the planet hospitable to us.

And the animals. There is more than planet and humans. If it was just us - to some extent - I’d say “we get what we deserve.” But animals vastly outnumber humans, feel pain just like us, and do not deserve any of it. At least that’s what I find myself experiencing when I think about the future of our planet.

Edit: I looked it up. Estimate is 20,000,121,091,000,000,000 or 20 billion billion animals. “Vastly” was clearly an understatement.

Re: Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

#45

Post by cschneid »

krisoft wrote: post #33
tarentel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pando_(tree)

It feels this part is what they are asking citation for: "Aspens are weird enough that they may be thought of more like a fungus with tree-like fruiting bodies rather than trees per se". At least the second sentence of their comment seems to suggest that. I read the page you kindly linked but I'm not seeing anything about Aspens being considered a fungus with tree-like fruiting bodies..

Not literally, but in style. They are clearly trees.

But they exist in a large underground network of roots, and spawn trunks upwards over that large area, not unlike how many funguses do. Convergent evolution of an approach to life.

Re: Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

#46

Post by kevviiinn »

inpdx wrote: post #43
tsunamifury wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your flippant response here robs us of a conversation as to why we do this — what larger purpose does it serve in the macro scale mentioned earlier. Is earth a set of short term optimized life leading to different eras or are humans the first sentient life that must take responsibility for it. If so how and with what goals. For our own preservation? To freeze all life as it is today?

No other species has had this great of an impact on that many species. If we were wise and thoughtful, collectively we could both advance ourselves and allow the diversity to continue. So it's a shame we aren't.

Humans are notoriously short sighted

Re: Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

#47

Post by Loughla »

bheadmaster wrote: post #19
tsunamifury wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet in general and this forum in particular is prone to pedantic misinterpretations— just heading it off.

I understand why you said it. It just seems that the general atmosphere of the internet is that of self-censorship and fear. It just doesn't sit well with me. The intolerance of different views is driving the hostile and divisive atmosphere in the social media. Let's say there's a person who's really anti-climate change. How is that person supposed to change their mind, if they get attacked every time they voice thei…

Legitimately, do you believe that people posting on internet forums is an effective means of getting someone to change their minds?

My take is that by the time the poster goes through the effort to post, they have adopted [insert view here] into their personal belief system; they're not seeking answers.

Don't most studies show that fact based arguments only cause people with faulty beliefs to dig in further?

Re: Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

#48

Post by shiftpgdn »

izzydata wrote: post #37
tsunamifury wrote: post #2

I think it’s wild and deeply inspiring to imagine how the surface of the earth had radically different forms over billions of years. Huge landscapes of unrotted dead plants. Then massive landscapes of fungus and decomposing bacteria breaking that down into dirt. And on and on. I think it is wise to understand that earth has been through many eras and is not as homeostatic as our narrowly imagined “natural” state we s…

And then after millions of years and all of the biological matter turning into oil we will eventually use it all up within ~300-400 years. The era that humans will utilize this kind of gasoline combustion is such a tiny blip of the whole human history, but today it seems like civilization can't possibly exist without it. I don't see how airplanes are even going to exist for mass transit and cargo 200 years from now o…

Rockets (especially SpaceX ones) can fly without fossil fuels. Hydrocarbons can easily be synthesized with thermal depolymerization or wasteful processes like how we make ethanol from corn.

That's to say nothing of how all the oil fields we've tapped are the easy to get ones, and the deep sea holds a ton of oil.

Re: Long before trees overtook the land, Earth was covered by prototaxites (2013)

#49

Post by theGnuMe »

tsunamifury wrote: post #2

I think it’s wild and deeply inspiring to imagine how the surface of the earth had radically different forms over billions of years. Huge landscapes of unrotted dead plants. Then massive landscapes of fungus and decomposing bacteria breaking that down into dirt. And on and on. I think it is wise to understand that earth has been through many eras and is not as homeostatic as our narrowly imagined “natural” state we s…

We want to keep the earth habitat habitable for humans.
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