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Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

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Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#41

Post by vivegi »

curiousbean wrote: post #40
vivegi wrote: post #27

I wonder what happens when sites start using techniques like Zip/Compression bombs to defend against impolite mass downloaders. Particularly, in this case of downloading images without honoring robots.txt, a PNG/JPEG/ZIP bomb [1] might be a countermeasure in this arms race. [1]: https://www.bamsoftware.com/hacks/deflate.html

I appreciate the idea, but it's also a border line crime if you end up bringing down the requester (not that I would shed any tears).

If one posts a section in their web page stating:

WARNING

This PNG image is an example of a compressed image file that might expand to a huge size upon decompression. PLEASE DO NOT DOWNLOAD IT. We are not responsible for consequences if you do not follow this instruction.

and someone does that anyways, they are to blame, aren't they?

Especially downloaders who claim they are entitled to download it and hosters must use their proprietary opt-out scheme (like the ones on the original linked article) should also learn that they should follow the hoster's instruction and NOT download the zip bomb.

(And the hoster also lists that specific file in robots.txt)

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#42

Post by version_five »

salawat wrote: post #37
Riverheart wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is what? If you mean distinguishing between AI and humans, it’s exactly what it sounds like. Fair use is a legal construct not a universal truth and subject to change like anything else. Just like how the US Founders writing the 2nd amendment with muskets in mind didn’t foresee full auto assault rifles in the hands of citizens. In hindsight, overly permissive law, all things not equal, hello gun control.

Automatic weapons were in fact in the public consciousness at the time of the founding, and the Gatling Gun existed and was used in the Civil War with no restrictions on who may own one. I dare say, this thought that people so well read they could architect a country were not aware of the State of the Art in weaponry is rather naive.

I don't think any of that is relevant. It's obvious they didn't mean that they only wanted citizens to have the right to bear inferior arms and that only the government should get the more advanced or powerful weapons. The entire point is being able to oppose a tyrannical government.

I can see an argument over nukes, but this "they didn't imagine assault weapons" is just some kind of gaslighting. They imagined sufficient arms to defend oneself against authority.

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#43

Post by curiousbean »

vivegi wrote: post #41
curiousbean wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the idea, but it's also a border line crime if you end up bringing down the requester (not that I would shed any tears).

If one posts a section in their web page stating: WARNING This PNG image is an example of a compressed image file that might expand to a huge size upon decompression. PLEASE DO NOT DOWNLOAD IT. We are not responsible for consequences if you do not follow this instruction. and someone does that anyways, they are to blame, aren't they? Especially downloaders who claim they are entitled to download it and hosters must u…

I am not a lawyer, but I don't think it would work.

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#44

Post by shadowgovt »

eqvinox wrote: post #28

(from that project's README:) > AI art is democratizing art and letting hundred of millions of people express themselves through art. Making art much more prevalent and unique My contemporary art major friend blows a vein every time they read something like this. It's clear what it tries to say, but that's not art . It's fancy pictures. Which isn't to say it's somehow wrong, or doesn't allow people to express themsel…

There are two creative actions related to AI art engines:

1) Selecting the prompt

2) Selecting the output

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#45

Post by deanCommie »

idontreadtheop wrote: post #25
deanCommie wrote: post #16

While this may seem quaint, let's review the github package's README: ``` Opt-out directives Websites can pass the http headers `X-Robots-Tag: noai`, `X-Robots-Tag: noindex` , `X-Robots-Tag: noimageai` and `X-Robots-Tag: noimageindex` By default img2dataset will ignore images with such headers. To disable this behavior and download all images, you may pass --disallowed_header_directives '[]' See [AI use impact]( http…

The idea that you should be able to publish information and then control how people use it is indeed popular, but claiming that failing to embrace this idea is inherently unethical … well, I’d say “citation needed” at a minimum.

Ethics are subjective, and debatable.

I'm happy to discuss further, but "citation needed" makes it sound like you think I must prove to you with some facts of the validity of the position. That's not the conversation we need to have.

I don't think you can take a general summary of this situation, round off edges and nuance, and then say that I made the argument that this DIFFERENT scenario is "inherently unethical".

Ethics are nuanced and highly specific to the context, and the framing. A single word, phrasing, emphasis (or lack thereof) can change the scenario from an ethical to an unethical one, and vice versa.

For example, here is how I would phrase the exact same content in a way that i believe WOULD be ethical:

``` //First sentence unchanged

Websites can pass the http headers `X-Robots-Tag: noai`, `X-Robots-Tag: noindex` , `X-Robots-Tag: noimageai` and `X-Robots-Tag: noimageindex` By default img2dataset will ignore images with such headers.

//Then pull up the policy link first

To understand why image creators and artists may choose to specify such headers for their images, and choose to actively not consent to their images being collected, see [AI use impact](https://github.com/rom1504/img2dataset#ai-use-impact).

AI training would not be possible without the contribution of artists, and it is the recommendation of this tool's authors that you should respect their communicated wishes. However, if you have a legitimate reason to bypass these headers, to disable this behavior and download all images, you may pass --disallowed_header_directives '[]'

```

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#47

Post by blindpainter »

This is set of lawsuits waiting to happen. Bypassing or ignoring common practices like robots.txt put this on par with theft.

Practices like this are a big part of the reason the EU and California adopted GDPR.

The creator is clearly unethical and too lazy to ask for permission.

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#48

Post by justsomehnguy »

vivegi wrote: post #41
curiousbean wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the idea, but it's also a border line crime if you end up bringing down the requester (not that I would shed any tears).

If one posts a section in their web page stating: WARNING This PNG image is an example of a compressed image file that might expand to a huge size upon decompression. PLEASE DO NOT DOWNLOAD IT. We are not responsible for consequences if you do not follow this instruction. and someone does that anyways, they are to blame, aren't they? Especially downloaders who claim they are entitled to download it and hosters must u…

An armed bear trap in your garage almost automatically escalate the case from burglary/theft to a premediated murder.
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