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I have a bad feeling about this

raganwald.posterous.com

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Re: I have a bad feeling about this

#41

Post by tnicola »

bo1024 wrote: post #27
tnicola wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More generally, it's like this. You can argue all day about "good" and "evil", but what people respond to are incentives. 100% agree, but incentives and benevolence are not necessarily exclusive of each other. An acquaitance wrote a trillogy. She posted all three books on Amazon for a standard price of 4.99 per e-book. She worked hard on this trillogy and deemed that it was a fair price. She sold ~10 copies of each…

I agree to a point, but I'm not so sure about this. > Benevolence will not come from a political system or from the top down. Here, you seem to be implying that incentives and benevolence are exclusive. The political (and economic) system can be set up so that it rewards benevolence, or it can punish benevolence. To get more benevolence, I think we must also work on changing the rules to encourage it. (As well as vot…

> I think we must also work on changing the rules to encourage it.

You hit the nail on the head here. What I meant by not come from the top down, I meant that it will come incrementally from the people who will reward it with their support. It cannot be ordered, it has to be desired, recognized and rewarded.

Re: I have a bad feeling about this

#42

Post by sukuriant »

zanny wrote: post #30
eternalban wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The relationship between the Empire, I mean, Google and Mozilla is disturbing the force.

Reminds me of the Confederacy from the prequels. Oh yeah, those are forbidden. Regardless, the Republic and Confederacy were both toys of the Emperor, so I guess Google and Firefox... Ok I'll just leave. Star Wars should be public domain though (the original 3 movies). Fuck infinite copyright.

I have to disagree here. George Lucas is still alive, and he wrote it.

Re: I have a bad feeling about this

#43

Post by noibl »

Helianthus wrote: post #38
noibl wrote: post #25

TL;DR: As I enter my twilight years, I know that Star Wars will continue to comfort me long into my dotage. raganwald: 50's nothing, get back in the game. America: The Cold War is over. There is no Death Star to blow up. You can't fight for freedom anymore. You can only create it. --- To be clear: I don't mean to ridicule the point of the post. Bad laws are bad. But the status quo cannot last forever. It is a peculia…

That's a nice horse you have.

Feel free to say something that could actually be responded to whenever you get bored with trolling.

Re: I have a bad feeling about this

#44

Post by Helianthus »

noibl wrote: post #43
Helianthus wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a nice horse you have.

Feel free to say something that could actually be responded to whenever you get bored with trolling.

Well, editing as response to a child comment makes this comment a useless space.

Cheater :(.

Re: I have a bad feeling about this

#45

Post by nhebb »

redstripe wrote: post #24

The BBC commissioned a study [1] that claims the Charles Dicken's brand brings in about £280m/year to the UK's economy. This from a public domain "brand". Meanwhile companies like Disney lobby for perpetual copyright to protect their own interest at the cost of all the lost opportunities that will never exist. I don't understand how politicians in the free enterprise countries, especially American republicans with th…

You need look no further than primetime TV in the US. ABC and NBC both have shows based on Grimm's Fairy Tales - Once Upon a Time and Grimm. Both shows are doing well in the ratings and have the public domain works of Grimm to thank for it.

Re: I have a bad feeling about this

#46

Post by iamgilesbowkett »

moonchrome wrote: post #37
redstripe wrote: post #24

The BBC commissioned a study [1] that claims the Charles Dicken's brand brings in about £280m/year to the UK's economy. This from a public domain "brand". Meanwhile companies like Disney lobby for perpetual copyright to protect their own interest at the cost of all the lost opportunities that will never exist. I don't understand how politicians in the free enterprise countries, especially American republicans with th…

>The BBC commissioned a study that claims the Charles Dicken's brand brings in about £280m/year to the UK's economy. But who cares how much it "brings in" ? Why is money the sole metric of wealth. How much value does open source provide - take linux for eg. which is used in pretty much every aspect of computing these days - from cell phones to super computers - how much value has it provided to the consumers and allo…

I think you raise a very good point with "how much value does open source provide", but this question:

"Why is money the sole metric of wealth."

is a) ungrammatical and b) basically a tautology. money is the sole metric of wealth because wealth, quantified, is money.

not trying to detract from the point you raise, just getting a bit OCD about logic and grammar.

Re: I have a bad feeling about this

#47

Post by Helianthus »

twainer wrote: post #39
Helianthus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're saying that we should play by the rules. Part of the game, though, is that we can change the rules. Intellectual property is more or less dead. This is not a willy-nilly urge, nor a selfish catharsis. It's the outcome of a generation growing up with instant access to their culture, and once such freedom is granted it is not easily revoked.

Go ahead - look through all my comments I've written on IP. When you know what I am saying, you'll know I am not saying one should play by the rules - I never have in my life, that's for sure. And yes - the current urge is selfish - as you point out it grows out of having taken a freedom - not having worked to be 'granted' anything - and then had that freedom 'revoked'. There is always a greater good. I am 100% for u…

>And yes - the current urge is selfish - as you point out it grows out of having taken a freedom - not having worked to be 'granted' anything - and then had that freedom 'revoked'.

I suppose that is accurate as far as it goes, but labeling that "selfish" seems to be a point of view connotation rather than a necessary one. That is to say, whether or not a thing is a right or an overzealous demand is in the eye of the beholder.

And I unequivocally support the right of people to their culture, and I'm part of a world where that culture is increasingly free.

>But the desire to wipe out IP does nothing to put economic power into the hands of creative individuals

_Exactly._ It removes economic concern from the art. No more rock stars selected and groomed by the establishment; instead hard-working touring musicians.

The fear that seems to drive any continuation of copyright seems to be that artists will stop making art. The fear that seems to drive patents is similar; that our engineers will stop building things.

You can never stop humans from constructing beautiful things! It's in our nature!

I as an artist and an engineer _don't want my output to be property._

Re: I have a bad feeling about this

#48

Post by tomflack »

redstripe wrote: post #24

The BBC commissioned a study [1] that claims the Charles Dicken's brand brings in about £280m/year to the UK's economy. This from a public domain "brand". Meanwhile companies like Disney lobby for perpetual copyright to protect their own interest at the cost of all the lost opportunities that will never exist. I don't understand how politicians in the free enterprise countries, especially American republicans with th…

The stated goal of copyright protection in the United States is to "...promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts".

Given Disney's fierce protection of ancient copyrights and attempts to have their length endlessly extended AND the importance Disney places on their old properties... would a shorter copyright term in fact meet this goal better by forcing Disney to produce new characters and new series? There is little "progress" in endlessly hashing out Mickey Mouse, so if he were forced in to the public domain Disney would be forced to create new characters to keep making money.

Disney is just the example I am using to illustrate the point, this train of thought applies to most film studios. Long copyright terms are making it more desirable to keep squeezing your old work over creating something new.

Re: I have a bad feeling about this

#50

Post by jjude »

iamgilesbowkett wrote: post #46
moonchrome wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The BBC commissioned a study that claims the Charles Dicken's brand brings in about £280m/year to the UK's economy. But who cares how much it "brings in" ? Why is money the sole metric of wealth. How much value does open source provide - take linux for eg. which is used in pretty much every aspect of computing these days - from cell phones to super computers - how much value has it provided to the consumers and allo…

I think you raise a very good point with "how much value does open source provide", but this question: "Why is money the sole metric of wealth." is a) ungrammatical and b) basically a tautology. money is the sole metric of wealth because wealth, quantified, is money. not trying to detract from the point you raise, just getting a bit OCD about logic and grammar.

for me, discretionary time is real wealth
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