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Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

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Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#91

Post by oa335 »

ybinator604g3 wrote: post #62
throwaw12 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The religion had nothing to do with it. I would disagree with it. Imagine if, Islam was opposing to the idea of science, as the largest religion of that area (which not only included Iran, but many others), what would happen? Science would have been abolished, stopped immediately. Instead, Islam encouraged people to learn more science, even greek philosophers work was translated by hiring Christian people. On the o…

> Imagine if, Islam was opposing to the idea of science Are you suggesting the biggest contribution was not getting in the way? I wouldn't call it a contribution. > economic and political prosperity after conquering many places That happened despite the invasion, not because of it. Iran was well prosperous before that and the fall of Persian empires eventually cleared the way for a destructive Mongol invasion which I…

An invasion in the 7th century paved the way for the Mongol invasions over 500 years later? That’s incredible reasoning.

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#92

Post by brutusborn »

agumonkey wrote: post #44
Rygian wrote: post #12

Water management in southeastern Spain, the Alpujarras region, is a fascinating topic. The local communities maintain very precise irrigation ditches ("acequias de careo") midway along the mountains. During the months of rainfall and snowmelt, the water flowing along these ditches is soaked into the ground up to the point where the ditch ends because all the water has been absorbed underground. Months later, the wate…

so they use the mountain as a buffer to delay flow until summer ?

And to filter the water.

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#93

Post by [deleted] »

ybinator604g3 wrote: post #66
erenyeager wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason behind drawing such a distinction may be more telling, as there is a larger push in some groups to draw this distinction for the sake of harkening back to pre-Islamic Persia. But of course, modern Persia and Islam are intertwined, so usually those who wish to draw a distinction do so for political or religious bias reasons.

That's a pretty big assumption. It's natural to like your heritage and it's fine doing so while being respectful of other people's culture and heritage. I like other people to know about my culture for what it really was, what it went through and what it is right now. This is in contrast with how western media has tried to depict Iran as their political foe. Interestingly, Modern Persia and Islam (more with Islamic r…

[deleted]

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#94

Post by wrp »

dredmorbius wrote: post #77
wrp wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way around the awkwardness with "Islamic world" is to use "Near East", which is used to cover the core geographic area in pre-modern times. If you try thinking of when was a "golden age" of the Near East, it becomes evidently a less sound idea.

"Near east" suffers from the issue that it's a geographic classification rather than one encompassing both a region and a period. It's also, of course, a relative description in that it is "near" relative to a specific presumptive geographic centre, that is, Europe. That's not to say that the term isn't viable. But again, nuance and compromise.

"Near East" is not used in academia as simply a geographic classification. It is used among historians as a standard term for a cultural realm and a specific time frame. "Middle East" is another standard term for a more expanded realm and a different time frame. By analogy, "the West" does not connote a precise geographic territory.

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#95

Post by robotresearcher »

ybinator604g3 wrote: post #66
erenyeager wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason behind drawing such a distinction may be more telling, as there is a larger push in some groups to draw this distinction for the sake of harkening back to pre-Islamic Persia. But of course, modern Persia and Islam are intertwined, so usually those who wish to draw a distinction do so for political or religious bias reasons.

That's a pretty big assumption. It's natural to like your heritage and it's fine doing so while being respectful of other people's culture and heritage. I like other people to know about my culture for what it really was, what it went through and what it is right now. This is in contrast with how western media has tried to depict Iran as their political foe. Interestingly, Modern Persia and Islam (more with Islamic r…

> western media has tried to depict Iran as their political foe.

They are foes. Not the people, but the political regimes. Iran is pretty clear about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_to_America

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#96

Post by behnamoh »

staplar wrote: post #82
behnamoh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. During the Golden Age, most Persian scholars and scientists had to write their books in Arabic to preserve them in libraries. Most Persians had to choose Arabic names. That's why when people see a Persian mathematician like this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Musa_al-Khwarizmi , they might think he was Arab. Fun fact: The word "Algorithm" comes from this guy's name!

He wasn’t Persian. This is a daylight robbery from the people of Central Asia. Look at his last name. Khwarazm is in Central Asia and it has no ethnic Persians(ethnic Tajiks don’t count).

The Wikipedia page literally says he was Persian. Khwarazm was part of Persia at the time.

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#97

Post by bigthymer »

brutusborn wrote: post #92
agumonkey wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so they use the mountain as a buffer to delay flow until summer ?

And to filter the water.

And for air conditioning

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windcatcher#:~:text=A%20windca...

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#98

Post by dredmorbius »

wrp wrote: post #94
dredmorbius wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Near east" suffers from the issue that it's a geographic classification rather than one encompassing both a region and a period. It's also, of course, a relative description in that it is "near" relative to a specific presumptive geographic centre, that is, Europe. That's not to say that the term isn't viable. But again, nuance and compromise.

"Near East" is not used in academia as simply a geographic classification. It is used among historians as a standard term for a cultural realm and a specific time frame. "Middle East" is another standard term for a more expanded realm and a different time frame. By analogy, "the West" does not connote a precise geographic territory.

I'm familiar with the term.

So far as I'm aware and some quick online checks suggest likewise[1], it largely came into widespread usage in the 20th century and tends to refer to either the Olttoman Empire or the post-WWI nation-states of the roughly from present day Turkey to Egypt to Iran. Wikipedia gives origin of the term to roughly 1855, at which point it would have referred to the Ottoman Empire, as opposed to India, China, the East Indies, and Indochina).

"Near East" has since largely been replace by "Middle East", though that term largely refers to the post World War Two states in the same region. The Wikipedia article noted here gives criticisms of the term largely along the lines I've suggested.

And I'm not aware of either term ("Near..." or "Middle...") being used to apply to the period from the 8th - 13th centuries, a/k/a the Islamic Golden Age.[2]

________________________________

Notes:

1. Largely Wikipedia and Google's Ngram Viewer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_East> https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Near+East&year...>

2. For Middle East: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East#Usage_and_criticis...> https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Middle%20East&...>

3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age>

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#99

Post by wrp »

dredmorbius wrote: post #98
wrp wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Near East" is not used in academia as simply a geographic classification. It is used among historians as a standard term for a cultural realm and a specific time frame. "Middle East" is another standard term for a more expanded realm and a different time frame. By analogy, "the West" does not connote a precise geographic territory.

I'm familiar with the term. So far as I'm aware and some quick online checks suggest likewise[1], it largely came into widespread usage in the 20th century and tends to refer to either the Olttoman Empire or the post-WWI nation-states of the roughly from present day Turkey to Egypt to Iran. Wikipedia gives origin of the term to roughly 1855, at which point it would have referred to the Ottoman Empire, as opposed to I…

> And I'm not aware of either term...being used to apply to the period from the 8th - 13th centuries

The Journal of Near Eastern Studies (https://www.jstor.org/journal/jneareaststud) is typical in defining its scope as the Near East, from the ancient times to pre-modern Near East. As I said, "Near East" is the standard term for referring to the history/archaeology of this cultural region in pre-modern times.

When you want to specify the pre-Islamic Near East, the standard term is "Ancient Near East", as this from the Journal of Ancient Near Eastern History (https://www.degruyter.com/journal/key/janeh/html?lang=en).

The Journal of Ancient Near Eastern History seeks to encourage and stimulate the study of the history of the ancient Near East, which is broadly defined to include areas from Iran to the western Anatolian coast and the Black Sea to Southern Arabia from its prehistoric foundations to the Late Antique period.

The Late Antique period is very roughly the 3rd-7th centuries.

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#100

Post by rramadass »

falaki wrote: post #17

That "Islamic Golden Age" is a complete misnomer. It hides the religious diversity of the geography. Many don't know that it took many centuries for the majority of the population of the Iranian plateau to convert to Islam. For a good part of what is referred to as "Islamic Golden Age" Islam was not the dominant religion. Similar story applies to India. Up until 17th century, India was ruled by "muslim" rulers. Shoul…

Right, i had argued the same exact point here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35353914 and here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35050854 but for some reason even "educated" Muslims are not willing to think on these lines. It is time we got rid of the "Islamic Golden Age" moniker once and for all. In a way, it is what is actually holding back current day Islamic World from development since they are happy to wallow in useless self-adulation imagining their "Islamic Golden Age" which was not really theirs to begin with; thus hampering their own growth in the "Modern World".
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