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Moths are more efficient pollinators than bees: new research

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Re: Moths are more efficient pollinators than bees: new research

#101

Post by sidewndr46 »

tptacek wrote: post #47
sidewndr46 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what species are the native pollinators here in North America?

There's lots of them, including a huge variety of bees, but many (most?) of those bees are solitary, and aren't battery-farmed the way honey bees are.

I don't know what they are called, but the big bees that like to burrow into pine and other wood I have tried to make a home for. They aren't aggressive at all so I don't mind them buzzing about.

Every time I get a decent population we get some cold weather and I don't see them again for a long time.

Re: Moths are more efficient pollinators than bees: new research

#102

Post by filoeleven »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #101
tptacek wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's lots of them, including a huge variety of bees, but many (most?) of those bees are solitary, and aren't battery-farmed the way honey bees are.

I don't know what they are called, but the big bees that like to burrow into pine and other wood I have tried to make a home for. They aren't aggressive at all so I don't mind them buzzing about. Every time I get a decent population we get some cold weather and I don't see them again for a long time.

Carpenter bees. They are pretty neat for sure.

If anyone has issues with them boring into buildings, there’s an easy solution: stuff a paper bag with some plastic bags and hang it up nearby. The bees will think it’s a wasp’s nest and vacate the area within a few days. I know someone who does this every year and it works like a charm. Which, I suppose in a way, it is.

Re: Moths are more efficient pollinators than bees: new research

#103

Post by Maursault »

soperj wrote: post #93
wiseowise wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are useless and harmful, there are far better pollinators than mosquitos.

There are certain species that are only pollinated by mosquitoes. Orchids for example.

Orchids are not only pollinated by mosquitos. While there are some orchids that have a single insect species pollinator, this is not the case with the orchid that mosquitos pollinate, the blunt-leaved orchid, which is also pollinated by other insects.[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platanthera_obtusata

Re: Moths are more efficient pollinators than bees: new research

#104

Post by Maursault »

soperj wrote: post #43
Maursault wrote: post #23

I hate bug zappers. They should be illegal. All they do is kill moths and beetles. They are entirely ineffective against mosquitoes and other biting flies, and their otherwise indiscriminate killing disrupts pollination and generally throws the local environment completely out of balance.

Mosquitoes are pollinators, only the females suck blood, and that's only to produce eggs.

> Mosquitoes are pollinators

Of the 3500 species of mosquito, only 6% bite humans. Of the 200 indigenous species of mosquitos in the US, only 12 of them bite humans. Mosquitos are the world's deadliest animal, killing a million people a year. Moths don't kill anyone, and if they're more efficient than bees at pollination, then they're likely more efficient than mosquitos. If we eliminated only the biting species of mosquito, any detrimental effects on pollination or the food chain would be negligible.

Re: Moths are more efficient pollinators than bees: new research

#105

Post by Maursault »

deafpolygon wrote: post #77
wiseowise wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are useless and harmful, there are far better pollinators than mosquitos.

They are part of the ecosystem and are efficient pollinators. Without mosquito larvae, for example, aquatic animals such as tadpoles and such would have less to eat.

There are 3500 species of mosquito, of which only about 200 bite humans. If we eliminated biting mosquitos, tad poles and such will still have plenty of non-biting mosquito larvae to eat. And compared to bees and moths, mosquitos are not nearly as efficient pollinators. If all biting mosquito species suddenly vanished, the effect on ecosystems would be negligible, and it would stop them from killing a million people a year. The benefits would far, far outweigh the risks.

Re: Moths are more efficient pollinators than bees: new research

#106

Post by Maursault »

Eumenes wrote: post #80
Maursault wrote: post #23

I hate bug zappers. They should be illegal. All they do is kill moths and beetles. They are entirely ineffective against mosquitoes and other biting flies, and their otherwise indiscriminate killing disrupts pollination and generally throws the local environment completely out of balance.

Should fly swatters be illegal too?

You're equating genocide to a mugging. It's a strikingly poor analogy.

Re: Moths are more efficient pollinators than bees: new research

#107

Post by aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA »

cryptonector wrote: post #99
mythrwy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have wild honey bees in my yard (New Mexico) and have seen them in other places. I believe they are Africanized but just looking I can't tell the difference. At any rate, in warm areas of the US there are many feral old world bees.

They're africanized if they are very aggressive. Recently I saw a talk where the speaker said that if you find any africanized beehives in the wild, you should kill the hive because you don't want the africanized bees to spread. (Or if you have an africanized beehive, re-queen it.) I don't have any, and I'd be loathe to kill bees because I'm quite fond of them, but it's probably good advice.

You should hire a professional exterminator, to be more precise.

Re: Moths are more efficient pollinators than bees: new research

#108

Post by throwaway892238 »

fsckboy wrote: post #34
boomboomsubban wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corn syrup is/was more used as a cheaper alternative for maple syrup and sugar. The relative unpopularity of honey probably has more to do with sugar plantations making sugar somewhat affordable.

people are sensitive on the honey topic, but since I learned how hard it was to distinguish natural honey from fake honey (you need NMR or something), I've just been wondering why don't we all just use cheap fake honey?

If you want to support local farmers, buy local honey. You can go look at their bees if you don't believe them, and it supports the local economy. And, honestly, the range of flavors in real wildflower, orange blossom, clover, sage, buckwheat, etc honey is amazing. I don't use honey all that often, so I spring for the good stuff and drizzle it on fresh fruit, toast, tea, oatmeal, etc. It keeps basically forever so I have various little jars from places I've visited, and now and then I'll crack one open.

Re: Moths are more efficient pollinators than bees: new research

#109

Post by deafpolygon »

Maursault wrote: post #105
deafpolygon wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are part of the ecosystem and are efficient pollinators. Without mosquito larvae, for example, aquatic animals such as tadpoles and such would have less to eat.

There are 3500 species of mosquito, of which only about 200 bite humans. If we eliminated biting mosquitos, tad poles and such will still have plenty of non-biting mosquito larvae to eat. And compared to bees and moths, mosquitos are not nearly as efficient pollinators. If all biting mosquito species suddenly vanished, the effect on ecosystems would be negligible, and it would stop them from killing a million people…

Only ~90 is known to transmit disease.

I'm all for eradicating the diseases, but not really a fan of wiping out entire mosquito species. Eliminating biting mosquitos may have a knock-on effect... possible unforeseen effects that may adversely affect entire ecosystems.

There may be certain species that have evolved to hunt/feed on specific mosquitos, and in turn, other species that rely on these. When they are displaced because of this, it's possible that the checks and constraints on certain species will be reduced.

They may not be efficient pollinators per insect, but they may yet pollinate certain types of plants in certain locations that no other species do efficiently due to sheer numbers.

Re: Moths are more efficient pollinators than bees: new research

#110

Post by Maursault »

deafpolygon wrote: post #109
Maursault wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 3500 species of mosquito, of which only about 200 bite humans. If we eliminated biting mosquitos, tad poles and such will still have plenty of non-biting mosquito larvae to eat. And compared to bees and moths, mosquitos are not nearly as efficient pollinators. If all biting mosquito species suddenly vanished, the effect on ecosystems would be negligible, and it would stop them from killing a million people…

Only ~90 is known to transmit disease. I'm all for eradicating the diseases, but not really a fan of wiping out entire mosquito species. Eliminating biting mosquitos may have a knock-on effect... possible unforeseen effects that may adversely affect entire ecosystems. There may be certain species that have evolved to hunt/feed on specific mosquitos, and in turn, other species that rely on these. When they are displac…

We've strayed from the topic of bug zappers, which people foolishly install to control mosquitos having no effect, instead killing moths by the generation. If anyone comes up with a viable plan to extinct an entire species of biting mosquito, we can revisit. But at this point, your concern simply isn't credible.
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