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I’m ready to trade in my electric car

latimes.com

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Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#291

Post by frumper »

retrocryptid wrote: post #251
jjav wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> His $80k Tesla was $2M cheaper than a Bugatti Veyron. Clearly Tesla's are way cheaper than gas cars. Silly comparisons are fun I suppose, but for someone who is poor ultimately the only comparison that matters is how much will it cost this year. The cheapest non-salvage Tesla I see on craigslist right now is 30K. I also see tons of 2K-4K Honda/Toyota/Mazda cars that will give someone plenty of low-cost miles for ye…

Even if electricity was free, it would take 10s (if not 100s) of thousands of miles to make up for the initial price difference. But the future isn't written yet. It's entirely possible that gasoline will be $10/gallon next year and electricity may be free. In which case, it will only take 175,000 miles to break even. Also, I think we're conflating two stories here. The first is about the SPECIFIC example of me and m…

It's silly to compare the cost of operation of two cars that aren't in competition to be purchased by the same person. You should compare the kinds of cars you'd be likely to buy against each other, or the kinds of cars your brother is likely to buy against each other.

A model 3/Y purchase price is pretty much at the average new car price, so a person looking for a new sedan or mid sized SUV would look a step further and look at things like total cost of operation.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#292

Post by bryanlarsen »

theluketaylor wrote: post #287
Gunnerhead wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the charger situation like in Northern Ontario?

I've taken my Tesla to the Manitoulin a number of times to visit family with no issues from Southern Ontario. Not super north, but enough to get a good sense. Tesla has superchargers along 17 pretty consistently. The biggest gap is probably Sault St Marie to Wawa and that's only 230 km. The rest of the gaps are all well under 200 km (mostly around 100-150) so you don't have to stop at every location. Highway 11 is a…

On one of my trips the Sault charger was out of service. Not a big deal because the car warned us about it ahead of time and we made sure to charge up at Blind River, but that would have been problematic if we were driving a Standard Range Tesla. It's a tough stretch because it's almost completely Provincial Park between the Sault and Wawa.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#293

Post by borski »

vel0city wrote: post #282
steveBK123 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most gas stations have more then 2-4 pumps, and whatever number they have, you aren't at risk of waiting 30min for previous user to finish, or driving 30 miles to find the next pump. I say this as an exclusively EV driver for 5+ years myself... let's not defend the indefensible (EA's CCS network).

I'm just sharing my personal experiences. Every time I've charged at a DCFC in the past year all dispensers appeared to be working and I was able to either plug and charge or tap to pay with Google Wallet on my phone. I did not wait in a line once nor did I fail to charge on the first try. Meanwhile in the last year I've waited in lines several times to get gas, and I've pulled up to a pump only to find it out of ord…

Precisely. The percentages are fairly similar, I’d guess. But we’d need actual objective data to show that.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#294

Post by tapoxi »

noogle wrote: post #191
tapoxi wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an early adopter, the benefit of less maintenance, home "refueling", and the fact that an EV is more fun to drive offsets the hassle. We've done a few road trips in it, and while road trip charging is annoying (we have a VW ID4, so the CCS network) its still worth dealing with because we enjoy the EV. Personally I think right now EVs are a great second car for almost everyone because you get the benefits of an EV…

That's the thing about cars: their real test (or importance) is not the 90% of the time spent in the "happy path" (short, planned drives after a full night charge). It's to address those edge but critical cases - long trips, unexpected drives, off-the-beaten-path routes. Another thing rarely raised is the correlated nature of traffic issues. Charging is fine now, mostly because it seems there is a huge over-provision…

I'd say that it's more like 99%. The vast majority of my time with the car I'm driving around the Boston metro area, where it's an objectively superior experience. The three days a year I'm making a long road trip (0.8% of days), it's mildly more inconvenient.

In June we're driving to northern Maine. This involves a stop halfway through at a CCS charger for 30-40 minutes while we change the baby and eat. Sure it takes longer, but it isn't inconvenient enough.

An evacuation order is an interesting worse case scenario, but not one I'll likely ever encounter living in New England. Our storms tend to be "stay home" affairs instead of "get out".

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#295

Post by vel0city »

jjav wrote: post #236
vel0city wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you're comparing the break even costs you should really be comparing a cheap used version of the car instead of a high end version as you're comparing it to a ludicrously cheap counterexample. His $80k Tesla was $2M cheaper than a Bugatti Veyron. Clearly Tesla's are way cheaper than gas cars. I don't understand how anyone can afford the millions of dollars gas cars cost. Or maybe $4k cars that aren't absolutel…

> His $80k Tesla was $2M cheaper than a Bugatti Veyron. Clearly Tesla's are way cheaper than gas cars. Silly comparisons are fun I suppose, but for someone who is poor ultimately the only comparison that matters is how much will it cost this year. The cheapest non-salvage Tesla I see on craigslist right now is 30K. I also see tons of 2K-4K Honda/Toyota/Mazda cars that will give someone plenty of low-cost miles for ye…

> Here with PG&E they charge 33c/kWh after midnight, or 56c/kWh during peak hours.

Sounds like a good reason to avoid areas served by PG&E.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#296

Post by seanmcdirmid »

vel0city wrote: post #290
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What car? What provider? You mentioned taping a card, not just plugging in. Definitely not EA.

Mach E. I've had plug and charge work every time I've used an EA charger on the first try. I've never failed to charge on an EA charger nor have I ever had to use an app to pay for it. Most EVgo charging experiences have been plug and charge. I did have one experience a while ago that needed an app but that was one of their older chargers which even still had their old logo on it. All their newer chargers have succes…

Huh, ok, it seems like the Mach E is special in this regard:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_15118

Now if they could just support it for my i4...

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#297

Post by barbazoo »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #259
barbazoo wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could get another battery for long trips. And the bobcat to lift it into the car with.

Aha, 2770kg for a jcb bobcat and roughly 550kg for a battery pack. Let me guess - on a trailer? What would towing that do to the range on the first battery pack? Or are you being sarcastic?

Oh for sure I was being sarcastic.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#298

Post by barbazoo »

nikau wrote: post #263
barbazoo wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having both, ICE and EV tech under the hood means more technology that can fail. Heavier than either, less EV range, possibly no subsidy in some jurisdictions, things like that.

That's cool in Gartner research theory land, but Prius and hybrid Camrys confirm its nonsense.

> That's cool in Gartner research theory land, but Prius and hybrid Camrys confirm its nonsense.

The Prius Prime has a range of 72km according to [0] so it's clearly not "nonsense".

[0] https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/vehicles/prius-prime/feature...

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#299

Post by Fatnino »

mangosteenjuice wrote: post #108
cs702 wrote: post #19

At the moment, ONLY Tesla has decent supercharging (i.e., fast-charging) infrastructure in the US: https://www.tesla.com/findus I regularly go on ~300-mile drives that need only a single charging stop, lasting 15-20 minutes, on my Tesla EV. By the time I've gone to the bathroom and gotten a drink, the supercharger has added 100-150+ miles of range and the EV is ready to go. All the stalls always work. No other EV bra…

This was the only reason I got a Tesla instead of literally any other EV brand. I make frequent trips between the Bay Area and Los Angeles. Electrify America is now an alternative, but it's not as reliable when it comes to availability and uptime.

How long does that trip take in a tesla? Charging included.

When I need to make that trip (with more than one person. If just one traveler it's cheaper to fly) I just rent a gas car and can make the trip in just over 5 hours. I'd say that includes gas stops but often I don't even need to stop for gas. One tank will get me all the way across. It's still a good idea to stop for gas because you can find cheaper stations outside of the big metro areas. But a gas stop is 5 minutes offramp to onramp.

I feel like all this comparing of charging times and ranges of various EVs misses the point that NONE of them offer a better experience that a gas vehicle yet. Sure, it's a trade off some people are willing to make already and that's great. But it needs to get even better.

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