DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results • Hacker News Board

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#271

Post by red-iron-pine » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 1:04 PM UTC

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #265

pembrook wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is why advertising will remain the default business model of the mainstream internet and search. HN might possibly be the wealthiest collection of people on the internet. And if we’re complaining about $10-20/month here, there’s certainly no hope for the mass market.

Your point is totally valid, but I think the folks over at r/fatfire are probably wealthier than us peasants here.

you're talking circles in circles, in a venn-diagram sense. probably a non-trivial overlap there with HN users.

if you know what an SRE III is, and where those exist, chances are you're in the global 1%, and top 25% of US earners.

and yah i get not everyone on HN is STEM, and not all STEM is super-lucrative, but the parent poster is directionally correct.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#272

Post by vorpalhex » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 1:23 PM UTC

pembrook wrote: post #225

xlii wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been using Kagi for multiple months and due to advocacy I made few people pay for it too, but I’m completely disheartened by their business model. The whole explanation of the recent “we want to stay afloat” was weird, unexpected (price doubling with my usage, to 20$/mo) and felt untrue (ordinary user doing 30 searches per day?). I felt like it was written by Cut-Me-Own-Throat Dibbler - made sense but also very…

I think this is why advertising will remain the default business model of the mainstream internet and search. HN might possibly be the wealthiest collection of people on the internet. And if we’re complaining about $10-20/month here, there’s certainly no hope for the mass market.

I can't pay $20/month for EVERY site and tool.

I'm happy to pay the current $120 I do for Kagi, but that's my upper limit.

I do have some web tools I pay $250 a year for, and they are significantly more complicated than kagi.

With Kagi's new pricing, I will be paying >$300 a year. That is too much. They aren't THAT much better. That is literally more than my beefy dedicated gaming server in a datacenter!

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#273

Post by red-iron-pine » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 1:23 PM UTC

Super_Jambo wrote: post #206

fsckboy wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

neither the previous poster, but I'm not missing what was said, but are you missing that paying a subscription for something, if it becomes popular, becomes an irresistible audience to also advertise to? Have you seen Amazon Prime video lately? it becomes more and more festooned with ads, like happened to cable TV. Pay a subscription, and watch ads, or promotions, or product placements. They're drunk on it.

If Kagi adds ads I'll leave it.

There is a level of ad I'm willing to tolerate.

20 seconds before a YT vid -- yeah maybe. Every 2 minutes during the vid? Not so happy.

ditto for a paid search. something on the side of the page, or something that's in the middle of results but still clearly an ad... maybe.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#274

Post by diydsp » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 2:02 PM UTC

deltree7 wrote: post #79

p-e-w wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same people who use such features are also on average - more likely to use ad blockers. - more likely to critically evaluate any advertising/propaganda they encounter. - more likely to use VPNs and other technology that makes them more difficult to track. - more likely to be "power users" of the service, thus consuming more resources than the average user. Many more points like these apply, but the bottom line is…

My site always had the highest CTR for Ads from traffic coming from DuckDuckGo. One of the easiest traffic referral that neatly fits into an advertising bucket. VPNs, privacy tools. You name it. These so called self-proclaimed smart people were trained like a sheeple to buy stuff.

Impressive as heck... what site is that? i might be one of those ppl curious to check it out!

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#275

Post by pembrook » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 2:03 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #272

pembrook wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is why advertising will remain the default business model of the mainstream internet and search. HN might possibly be the wealthiest collection of people on the internet. And if we’re complaining about $10-20/month here, there’s certainly no hope for the mass market.

I can't pay $20/month for EVERY site and tool. I'm happy to pay the current $120 I do for Kagi, but that's my upper limit. I do have some web tools I pay $250 a year for, and they are significantly more complicated than kagi. With Kagi's new pricing, I will be paying >$300 a year. That is too much. They aren't THAT much better. That is literally more than my beefy dedicated gaming server in a datacenter!

That's basically my point. HN people are wealthy and spend most of their working hours and free time on the internet. They also vehemently hate ad-supported business models.

Hell, I probably built my entire career off internet searches.

In theory, HN people should have the most to gain from a better search engine, and be the most likely to pay for one. Yet, to your point, the alternatives are free and good enough.

The problem is, what the mob moralistically claims they want on HN (when upvotes/downvotes are a concern), vs. what those same people actually do in the real world on an individual level, are two separate things.

The lesson is, things evolved the way they have on the internet for a reason. It's not some "evil" companies shoving these ad-supported business models down our throats. We have all voted with our eyeballs and our (lack of) dollars, and will continue to do so. We get exactly the products we deserve.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#276

Post by kderbyma » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 2:05 PM UTC

It's garbage lately. no better than Google. they are all shit now a days. they just promote their results. search is a misnomer these days.....it's an engine....for ads

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#277

Post by brynx97 » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 2:11 PM UTC

manmal wrote: post #267

brynx97 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kagi are very open about their policy to submit feedback, bugs, and feature requests at https://kagifeedback.org/ . I've not submitted anything Kagi Search, but I've submitted a few features and performance issues/bugs to their Orion feedback. I got replies from Vlad and Kagi employees within 12 hours. Feel free to suggest this as feedback I'd say...

GGP comment is from Vlad so I answered him here.

Aha, look at that.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#278

Post by jeppester » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 2:11 PM UTC

AnonCoward42 wrote: post #254

stakhanov wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's precisely the antithesis of a use case of ChatGPT/BingAI. I want sourced information, and the opportunity to read the source in its original form, make a critical judgment about it, and draw my own conclusions. Giving me the opportunity to ask a question and get an answer, when I have no way of knowing whether the answer is a hallucination is less than useless. It's a waste of time.

At least BingAI does provide its sources and ChatGPT/BingAI are made to be conversational, so you get the opportunity to ask actual questions and get an answer. As with everything on the internet take the answers with a couple of grains of salt. You can also directly ask for the sources btw. In the end LLMs with access to the internet can be an abstraction to search engines. If it is good can only be assessed once yo…

If you ask for the source, don't you just get the most likely source?

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#279

Post by atkailash » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 2:16 PM UTC

hedora wrote: post #27

I’ve also noticed that “”’s stopped working as expected there recently. Sample query: “lowes pet bedding”. The quotation marks do something; they remove some results from tractor supply and home depot. However, many results don’t contain the word “lowes” or “bedding”. For example: https://animalcare.lacounty.gov/licensing/ And, none contain the exact phrase. Google does the expected thing (return one result). Annoyin…

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Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#280

Post by freediver » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 2:21 PM UTC

manmal wrote: post #214

freediver wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1000 searches are included in the $10 plan. Currently you are offered the option to pay for additional searches at 1.5 cents per search. Not ideal we know, but someone needs to pay for those, and the notice you received is courtesy (you can also remove it). How would you handle this differently?

I'd like to be warned before hitting a hard limit, in whichever way. E.g. warning emails ("You've reached 80% of your quota"), or a meter on the search page. From a higher POV, I like GPT-4's smaller time windows way better (x queries within 4 hour window). I hate to be "locked out" of search for a whole week. A few hours wouldn't feel that bad.

You can set your own notices in Kagi and you are never locked out of searching (as you can adjust limits yourself). We do not plan to invest more in these features as we'd like to walk towards the world where we can remove limits again.