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Magnet-hashes for all torrents on The Pirate Bay: 164 MB

thepiratebay.se

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Re: Magnet-hashes for all torrents on The Pirate Bay: 164 MB

#11

Post by Cushman »

chimeracoder wrote: post #4

This gets very meta very quickly. If linking to copyrighted data 'should' be illegal (SOPA), then what about descriptions of that data that are sufficient to identify the original, but not reconstruct it (magnet links)? And if those were made illegal, then what about descriptions of those descriptions? You can recurse infinitely on this. Beyond mere amusement, after just one or two recursions, you get to the point wh…

That's what this is already, eh?

A description of copyrighted data would be the torrent file, which content producers would probably like to argue are infringing.

A magnet link is a hash of the torrent file, so it's already two steps removed.

Of course, the Pirate Bay magnet dump is itself a torrent, so it's a hash of a hash of a hash of copyrighted data.

And that torrent itself has a magnet link: 938802790a385c49307f34cca4c30f80b03df59c is a hash of a hash of a hash of a hash of copyrighted data. (In the MP/RIAA's ideal world, I've just committed criminal copyright infringement with damages reaching into the $billions.)

Theoretically, the Pirate Bay dump could include the torrent for the Pirate Bay dump, and be an infinitely recursive description of itself... but that's probably an intractable cryptographic process.

Re: Magnet-hashes for all torrents on The Pirate Bay: 164 MB

#12

Post by kinghajj »

chimeracoder wrote: post #4

This gets very meta very quickly. If linking to copyrighted data 'should' be illegal (SOPA), then what about descriptions of that data that are sufficient to identify the original, but not reconstruct it (magnet links)? And if those were made illegal, then what about descriptions of those descriptions? You can recurse infinitely on this. Beyond mere amusement, after just one or two recursions, you get to the point wh…

The more one studies computer science, the less one believes that information can be owned in any meaningful way. I remember reading a paper on a "lightnet" that basically XORed arbitrary blocks of data together, then produced a recipe on how to recover some original data by XORing the appropriate blocks. With just this recipe you could ask other nodes for the random blocks, then recover the original data locally. The paper made a good argument that however you try to define ownership of a block, it will lead to some contradiction. The system was implemented but I can't recall its name. I think it was hosted on SourceForge.

Re: Magnet-hashes for all torrents on The Pirate Bay: 164 MB

#13

Post by its_so_on »

sorry if i'm being daft, but can't you get this down to a magnet link itself? THe page linked does just that: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:938802790a385c49307f34cca4c30f80b03df59c&dn=The+whole+Pirate+Bay+magnet+archive&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.publicbt.com%3A80&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.ccc.de%3A80

but wikipedia has an example of a magnet link like this:

magnet:?xt=urn:sha1:YNCKHTQCWBTRNJIV4WNAE52SJUQCZO5C

so could we get the magnet link to ALL of the magnet-hashes for ALL torrents on the Pirate Bay tdown to, what is that, 35 characters oplus the magnet cruft "magnet:?xt=urn:sha1:"?

Re: Magnet-hashes for all torrents on The Pirate Bay: 164 MB

#15

Post by gmaslov »

kinghajj wrote: post #12
chimeracoder wrote: post #4

This gets very meta very quickly. If linking to copyrighted data 'should' be illegal (SOPA), then what about descriptions of that data that are sufficient to identify the original, but not reconstruct it (magnet links)? And if those were made illegal, then what about descriptions of those descriptions? You can recurse infinitely on this. Beyond mere amusement, after just one or two recursions, you get to the point wh…

The more one studies computer science, the less one believes that information can be owned in any meaningful way. I remember reading a paper on a "lightnet" that basically XORed arbitrary blocks of data together, then produced a recipe on how to recover some original data by XORing the appropriate blocks. With just this recipe you could ask other nodes for the random blocks, then recover the original data locally. Th…

I'm sure most everyone on HN has read it already, but "What Colour are your bits?" http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23 is always a good reference in this sort of discussion. The system you mention sounds like what the Colour essay is railing against; trying to create a mathematical solution to a problem which is rooted in the law, and cannot be resolved by mathematical manipulations, but only by legal manipulations.

Do you recall the title or author of that paper? I'd be interested in reading about the contradiction argument you mention.

Re: Magnet-hashes for all torrents on The Pirate Bay: 164 MB

#16

Post by CJefferson »

kinghajj wrote: post #12
chimeracoder wrote: post #4

This gets very meta very quickly. If linking to copyrighted data 'should' be illegal (SOPA), then what about descriptions of that data that are sufficient to identify the original, but not reconstruct it (magnet links)? And if those were made illegal, then what about descriptions of those descriptions? You can recurse infinitely on this. Beyond mere amusement, after just one or two recursions, you get to the point wh…

The more one studies computer science, the less one believes that information can be owned in any meaningful way. I remember reading a paper on a "lightnet" that basically XORed arbitrary blocks of data together, then produced a recipe on how to recover some original data by XORing the appropriate blocks. With just this recipe you could ask other nodes for the random blocks, then recover the original data locally. Th…

I feel this is dealt with by the fact that law has a concept intention. Handing out the recipe for reconstructing the pirated material counts as aiding piracy, I would say.

Re: Magnet-hashes for all torrents on The Pirate Bay: 164 MB

#17

Post by tantalor »

Cushman wrote: post #11
chimeracoder wrote: post #4

This gets very meta very quickly. If linking to copyrighted data 'should' be illegal (SOPA), then what about descriptions of that data that are sufficient to identify the original, but not reconstruct it (magnet links)? And if those were made illegal, then what about descriptions of those descriptions? You can recurse infinitely on this. Beyond mere amusement, after just one or two recursions, you get to the point wh…

That's what this is already, eh? A description of copyrighted data would be the torrent file, which content producers would probably like to argue are infringing. A magnet link is a hash of the torrent file, so it's already two steps removed. Of course, the Pirate Bay magnet dump is itself a torrent, so it's a hash of a hash of a hash of copyrighted data. And that torrent itself has a magnet link: 938802790a385c49307…

I can beat that. With a bit of indirection, the URL http://thepiratebay.se references all of the above.

Re: Magnet-hashes for all torrents on The Pirate Bay: 164 MB

#18

Post by JoshTriplett »

gmaslov wrote: post #15
kinghajj wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more one studies computer science, the less one believes that information can be owned in any meaningful way. I remember reading a paper on a "lightnet" that basically XORed arbitrary blocks of data together, then produced a recipe on how to recover some original data by XORing the appropriate blocks. With just this recipe you could ask other nodes for the random blocks, then recover the original data locally. Th…

I'm sure most everyone on HN has read it already, but "What Colour are your bits?" http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23 is always a good reference in this sort of discussion. The system you mention sounds like what the Colour essay is railing against; trying to create a mathematical solution to a problem which is rooted in the law, and cannot be resolved by mathematical manipulations, but only by legal manipulations. Do…

I like that article as well, insofar as it helps both sides understand each other better, rather than continuously talking past each other. In order to do so effectively, that article pointedly avoids taking a position on the issue. However, the article also doesn't suggest that people shouldn't hold a position on that issue.

I personally feel comfortable taking the position that anyone claiming that bits have color has an objectively wrong view of reality. I don't think that position needs much advocacy, though; reality always tends to win in the long term. It could certainly use a little help sometimes, though.

Re: Magnet-hashes for all torrents on The Pirate Bay: 164 MB

#19

Post by JoshTriplett »

its_so_on wrote: post #13

sorry if i'm being daft, but can't you get this down to a magnet link itself? THe page linked does just that: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:938802790a385c49307f34cca4c30f80b03df59c&dn=The+whole+Pirate+Bay+magnet+archive&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.publicbt.com%3A80&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.ccc.de%3A80 but wikipedia has an example of a magnet link like this: magnet:?xt=urn:sha1:YNCKHTQCWB…

You can leave out the "dn" (just a name), but if you leave out the tr links to trackers, the peers using that magnet link will have a harder time finding each other, and will often end up partitioned.
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