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Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

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Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#221

Post by bedatadriven »

decaffjoe wrote: post #201

This topic misses the forest for the trees. Even if there is a cognitive difference in people who speak multiple languages, the magnitude of the advantage/disadvantage pales in comparison to the far more impactful difference in the understanding of the world that proficiency in another language gives you. If you're a monolingual American born English speaker and you learn Chinese and go live in China for a year, you'…

It's an academic paper with an intentionally narrow focus.

> If being bilingual does have benefits over and above the _broader social, employment, and lifestyle gains_ that are available to speakers of a second language, then it should manifest as a cognitive advantage in the general population of bilinguals.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#222

Post by TbobbyZ »

decaffjoe wrote: post #201

This topic misses the forest for the trees. Even if there is a cognitive difference in people who speak multiple languages, the magnitude of the advantage/disadvantage pales in comparison to the far more impactful difference in the understanding of the world that proficiency in another language gives you. If you're a monolingual American born English speaker and you learn Chinese and go live in China for a year, you'…

There are advantages at the individual level to understand and communicate with multiple cultures. I would argue it’s more than an increase/decrease in IQ points. Did the individual increase in their free time and income is the only valid output worth measuring in bilingual advantages.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#223

Post by yosito »

wheels wrote: post #139
yosito wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Globally speaking, German is useless, unless you're European and trying to find a job in Germany because it pays better than your home country. The only German speaking country is full of educated people who also speak fluent English. You'll never meet an internationally minded German who doesn't speak excellent English. Spanish, however, is spoken in an entire continent, which also has a very low level of English, p…

I agree that German isn't especially useful globally, but you're wrong on a couple points: - There are several countries with German as an official language, and a few other with German-speaking minorities. Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Luxembourg and Belgium all have it as an official language (though the last few are not terribly significant). There are also around half a million native German speake…

Good point about the other German speaking countries. I don't really know why that slipped my mind.

But the social class thing you mentioned is kind of my point. I think it's pretty much true in all of those German speaking countries, that if you only want to interact with service workers in cities and professional, college educated, internationally minded people, you will have plenty of people to talk to and might not ever feel a need to know German.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#224

Post by cat_plus_plus »

How good is independent variable control in this study? The most common reason for bilingualism is things going very wrong in the birth country for either you or your parents. In which case, cognitive disadvantage is expected due to malnutrition, preventable childhood diseases, parents not being best adjusted to host country culture and education system and so on.

On the other hand, voluntary bilingualism is a sign of opposite things. Even if it doesn't have an intrinsic cognitive advantage, your parents were thoughtful enough to provide that for you, which comes with a slew of both cultural and heritable factors. Your schools being able to offer successful foreign language programs is a sign of relative affluence. Plus, say if your mother tongue is English and your learn Mandarin. You are now able to better communicate with a billion people and have access to their opportunities. It's hard to imagine how this is not a practical advantage in life, any artificial benchmarks notwithstanding.

I would allow that becoming bilingual in English, Spanish or Mandarin is preferable to learning something that gives you less additional reach compared to just speaking your mother tongue, where benefits are harder to quantify.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#225

Post by andrekandre »

MobiusHorizons wrote: post #207
emodendroket wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be so, but if bilingualism is talking to your parents in kitchen Spanish without actually traveling anywhere, rather than learning the language of a culture that's alien to you so that you can spend an extended period of time there, is that just as enriching? Does an anglophone Canadian who learns French really expand their worldview that much? I'm not saying the answers to these questions are obvious "nos"…

I think the missing piece is engagement with the culture that is unlocked by being bilingual.

not only that but also the increased opportunities for new knowledge and experiences as well... it can open a lot of doors that would ordinarily be shut-off.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#226

Post by dumpster_fire »

It really depends on where the languages are from. I find learning languages from different worldviews helps me with judging other cultures less.

Someone on this thread said something about being able to consume content in other cultures. That's totally true. There's such a large delta between the knowledge base in each language that you get to cross pollinate ideas in your daily life.

There are some "feelings" and deep layers of nuance when speaking in one language that really can't be transferred to another unless you really immerse yourself in the media and literature.

Also to all my fellow multilingual people making sick puns that you laugh about to yourself inside, I see you.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#227

Post by typ »

One thing I find interesting about being multilingual is you can 'unlock' your different personalities and disrupt mental inertia a bit when speaking another language. It's like having one part of the brain take a break while activating other parts. But I also feel awkward speaking a different language in front of close friends when you are so used to speaking the 'default' language with them. It feels like you are exposing your other personality.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#228

Post by zirgs »

nayuki wrote: post #179

I see at least one subtle advantage in being multi-lingual: distinguishing concepts more clearly. I see monolingual English speakers who confuse to/too/two, there/their/they're, etc. It's hard to blame them because these word triplets are pronounced the same, so why bother distinguishing them in writing. Knowing how these words map to different languages reinforces their distinctions. There/their/they're in Chinese a…

Funny how the Chinese have to use that 26-letter alphabet too, because you can't put thousands of characters on a keyboard.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#229

Post by gehatare »

koreth1 wrote: post #206
decaffjoe wrote: post #201

This topic misses the forest for the trees. Even if there is a cognitive difference in people who speak multiple languages, the magnitude of the advantage/disadvantage pales in comparison to the far more impactful difference in the understanding of the world that proficiency in another language gives you. If you're a monolingual American born English speaker and you learn Chinese and go live in China for a year, you'…

Globally, a very small percentage of bilingual people fit the "I decided to learn a different language and then used it to temporarily live in another country very different from my own" model. Much more common is, "I speak my local regional language and also the official national language, and so does everyone else in my community."

Not necessarily living in another country, but a large part of the world, especially in industrialized countries, learns English. Neither regional nor national, but of course because it is the lingua franca.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#230

Post by cpursley »

AdrenalinMd wrote: post #50

As someone fluent in four languages*, I agree. I would even argue that the opposite of an advantage is true. Consider this: it adds unnecessary cognitive load. When trying to think of a word, it comes to you in four different languages, which isn't helpful! I speak four languages out of necessity, not by choice. When you can focus on fewer languages, your proficiency in them improves. Although I can speak four langua…

Every Dutch person I’ve meet in the Netherlands speaks English fluently. Not a reason not to peruse Dutch of course!

But Russian (former Soviet space) and French (Africa) have large population that often have no little English fluency.

Which opens up a lot more cultural doors.

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