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Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

journals.sagepub.com

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Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#211

Post by MobiusHorizons »

koreth1 wrote: post #206
decaffjoe wrote: post #201

This topic misses the forest for the trees. Even if there is a cognitive difference in people who speak multiple languages, the magnitude of the advantage/disadvantage pales in comparison to the far more impactful difference in the understanding of the world that proficiency in another language gives you. If you're a monolingual American born English speaker and you learn Chinese and go live in China for a year, you'…

Globally, a very small percentage of bilingual people fit the "I decided to learn a different language and then used it to temporarily live in another country very different from my own" model. Much more common is, "I speak my local regional language and also the official national language, and so does everyone else in my community."

True but many people also use that ability to travel to the local large city.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#212

Post by valenterry »

udev wrote: post #154
AdrenalinMd wrote: post #50

As someone fluent in four languages*, I agree. I would even argue that the opposite of an advantage is true. Consider this: it adds unnecessary cognitive load. When trying to think of a word, it comes to you in four different languages, which isn't helpful! I speak four languages out of necessity, not by choice. When you can focus on fewer languages, your proficiency in them improves. Although I can speak four langua…

I also speak the same four languages plus one more. I do consider there are advantages to speaking several languages. I learned from English that you can be very precise, but also economical in exposition of complex matter. I learned from Russian how incredibly powerful and nuanced a language can be (too bad it is currently used to scare people everywhere). I always say that "you can translate anything into Russian"…

Thank you, I find those insights very interesting!

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#214

Post by lostmsu »

udev wrote: post #154
AdrenalinMd wrote: post #50

As someone fluent in four languages*, I agree. I would even argue that the opposite of an advantage is true. Consider this: it adds unnecessary cognitive load. When trying to think of a word, it comes to you in four different languages, which isn't helpful! I speak four languages out of necessity, not by choice. When you can focus on fewer languages, your proficiency in them improves. Although I can speak four langua…

I also speak the same four languages plus one more. I do consider there are advantages to speaking several languages. I learned from English that you can be very precise, but also economical in exposition of complex matter. I learned from Russian how incredibly powerful and nuanced a language can be (too bad it is currently used to scare people everywhere). I always say that "you can translate anything into Russian"…

How do you translate parachute to Russian?

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#215

Post by mdp2021 »

routerl wrote: post #205
decaffjoe wrote: post #201

This topic misses the forest for the trees. Even if there is a cognitive difference in people who speak multiple languages, the magnitude of the advantage/disadvantage pales in comparison to the far more impactful difference in the understanding of the world that proficiency in another language gives you. If you're a monolingual American born English speaker and you learn Chinese and go live in China for a year, you'…

> ...you're going to come back with a much different understanding of Chinese culture and its people And of American culture and its people. You might re-evaluate some ideas you'd grown up with, becoming a more cosmopolitan/adaptable/understanding person, capable of having deeper relationships with a larger proportion of the Earth's population. But it probably won't make you better at tests of cognitive capacity.

> But it probably won't make you better at tests of cognitive capacity

How do you test «cognitive capacity»? The other day on these pages a newcomer came and wrote he "distrusts them ". Some call ignorance relevant to "cognitive capacity".

(Some call it "much more than just relevant".)

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#216

Post by HlessClaudesman »

decaffjoe wrote: post #201

This topic misses the forest for the trees. Even if there is a cognitive difference in people who speak multiple languages, the magnitude of the advantage/disadvantage pales in comparison to the far more impactful difference in the understanding of the world that proficiency in another language gives you. If you're a monolingual American born English speaker and you learn Chinese and go live in China for a year, you'…

Yeah, "Cognitive Advantages" is such a poor proxy for measuring a more enriched world view / life.

Let's say I live in a country of 3-4 million native language speakers, with next to zero speakers of my language internationally. Teaching a kid English at an early age opens them up to experiencing so much more than whatever happens to get produced / translated into my native lounge. When it comes to consuming information, would you rather your child was a great white shark or a bottom feeder?

Knowledge is a ladder, whose benefits compound over time, the end result is expertise. Also, understanding people from different nations is a good defence against parochialism, thinking that your people have al the answers.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#217

Post by mdp2021 »

koreth1 wrote: post #206
decaffjoe wrote: post #201

This topic misses the forest for the trees. Even if there is a cognitive difference in people who speak multiple languages, the magnitude of the advantage/disadvantage pales in comparison to the far more impactful difference in the understanding of the world that proficiency in another language gives you. If you're a monolingual American born English speaker and you learn Chinese and go live in China for a year, you'…

Globally, a very small percentage of bilingual people fit the "I decided to learn a different language and then used it to temporarily live in another country very different from my own" model. Much more common is, "I speak my local regional language and also the official national language, and so does everyone else in my community."

Thank happiness that we have the World Wide Web (literally suggestive) and global publishing trade then, if some people do not move much physically.

Multilingualism is an enabler.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#218

Post by e63f67dd-065b »

AdrenalinMd wrote: post #50

As someone fluent in four languages*, I agree. I would even argue that the opposite of an advantage is true. Consider this: it adds unnecessary cognitive load. When trying to think of a word, it comes to you in four different languages, which isn't helpful! I speak four languages out of necessity, not by choice. When you can focus on fewer languages, your proficiency in them improves. Although I can speak four langua…

The good (?) thing is that you can absolutely forget languages -- I used to, as a small child, speak both Cantonese and Hokkien fluently; after more than a decade and half of not speaking or hearing a single word, I have now completely lost the ability to do so. I was in Hong Kong right before COVID and was flabbergasted that I literally couldn't understand most of what I was hearing and was completely stuck when trying to speak Cantonese.

I'm not sure if speaking more languages exhausts some kind of mental capacity -- that's not my experience at all. There was a time when I spoke nothing but English for years, a time when I spoke 4 languages, and now I speak both English and Chinese daily; I haven't really observed any differences in my proficiency. My Chinese proficiency has probably gone back up to native status after atrophying in my college years of not speaking a single word.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#219

Post by helsinkiandrew »

decaffjoe wrote: post #201

This topic misses the forest for the trees. Even if there is a cognitive difference in people who speak multiple languages, the magnitude of the advantage/disadvantage pales in comparison to the far more impactful difference in the understanding of the world that proficiency in another language gives you. If you're a monolingual American born English speaker and you learn Chinese and go live in China for a year, you'…

> This topic misses the forest for the trees. Even if there is a cognitive difference in people who speak multiple languages, the magnitude of the advantage/disadvantage pales in comparison to the far more impactful difference in the understanding of the world that proficiency in another language gives you.

But that's not what the paper studied. It's long been stated in popular culture that learning a language increases cognitive ability: improves memory, reasoning, and helps reduce onset of senility etc. This study suggests it isn't.

That's different from how enriched you will be as a person from learning about other people and culture - It's the moving to China for a year that would increase your understanding of Chinese culture and people far more than learning Chinese by itself.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#220

Post by mdp2021 »

jb1991 wrote: post #147
AnnaPali wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assimil Dutch is an amazing course! It brings you to B2 in about 45 hours of applied study (just doing as the instructions tell you!) I really like Assimil courses in general but the polyglot community widely believes that the Dutch course is their best of all. Good luck!

Unfortunately it seems to be out of print, not available anywhere. Maybe the company is going out of business?

You forgot the Archive.

https://archive.org/search?query=assimil

https://archive.org/details/dutchwithouttoil00cher

For as long as the dogs will let it exist.

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