DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results • Hacker News Board

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#101

Post by freediver » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 5:20 AM UTC

remram wrote: post #38

dharmab wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kagi. See: https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/search-operators.html https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/filtering-results.html

$5/mo for 200 searches, $25/mo for unlimited? Loading more pages count as new search? Does anyone actually pay that? It looks like something a real search engine would post on April 1st.

Search has a cost. You can either pay for your searches and own your results or have someone else, a complete stranger, pay for your searches and have the results be in their best interest.

Also check: https://help.kagi.com/kagi/plans/why-pay-for-search.html

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#102

Post by anonymousab » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 5:21 AM UTC

palata wrote: post #72

Fabricio20 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

200 searches per month at $5? Holy christ I might do that in a single day! I guess this pricing isn't meant to countries outside of the US.

Have you ever tried counting your searches? You may be surprised. I'm slightly above the 500/month.

If your browser tries to prefetch search results from the address or search bar then it might add up very, very quickly.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#103

Post by freediver » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 5:22 AM UTC

wastewastewaste wrote: post #86

colordrops wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are working out the kinks with the pricing scheme You mean being way too expensive? I appreciate them wanting to stay afloat but they need to bring the cost per search down drastically. They are doing something wrong behind the scenes with regards to spend or optimization.

yea, the tool tip says "200 searches is enough for 99% of Internet users", but I doubt their target demographic is the 99% that don't need more.

You are correct, Kagi current users are mostly from the remaining 1%. However that plan was made to attract the remaining 99% Internet users to Kagi (and the plan is more than sufficient for their needs).

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#104

Post by p-e-w » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 5:23 AM UTC

freeAgent wrote: post #84

p-e-w wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I use Kagi without linking any real-world identifiers (including credit card details) to my search queries in any way? I'm very much interested in a high-quality search engine, and certainly willing to pay for it, but unless the above condition is satisfied, it's a non-starter for me.

Their privacy policy is here: https://kagi.com/privacy The short answer to your question is: yes, you can use it without linking any real-world identifiers to your search queries. That is explicitly stated in the linked privacy policy. With that said, I guess it's possible that they are violating their own privacy policy. That seems like a bad idea from a legal perspective, and I don't have any reason to suspect they…

Yeah I was actually hoping for an answer that doesn't require blind trust.

So the correct answer seems to be "we absolutely could link your searches to your identity, but we promise that we won't; however, you cannot verify that we are keeping that promise".

Which I'm afraid is not good enough. To be clear, I'm not saying that they are lying, and indeed I have no reason to suspect they are. But I'm looking for technological privacy, not contractual privacy.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#105

Post by speedgoose » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 5:23 AM UTC

geysersam wrote: post #83

colordrops wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are working out the kinks with the pricing scheme You mean being way too expensive? I appreciate them wanting to stay afloat but they need to bring the cost per search down drastically. They are doing something wrong behind the scenes with regards to spend or optimization.

Why do you think their prices are unreasonable? Just curious. 1.5 cents per search doesn't sound expensive, although if you do 100 searches per day that's $45 per month...

It looks like they do some fair margin on top of the Microsoft Bing API:

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/pricing/details/cognitive-...

Hopefully they can get volume discounts and reduce the prices.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#106

Post by ianstormtaylor » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 5:25 AM UTC

DanHulton wrote: post #70

I debated bringing up Kagi at the top level here, since I already commented on it in a reply, but honestly I really want them to succeed and shit like this is why. It's a paid search service, and I'm honestly really happy with that distinction and what it entails. Being paid means that they can deliver on and support features that users can use to get the best results for them, without worrying how those features may…

The best thing about Kagi I've found from trying it recently is that it's results are actually really good.

Every time I'd tried DuckDuckGo over the years I found myself having to switch back to Google because I was never sure that there weren't better results going missing. Whereas Kagi often ends up with better rankings than Google—eg. Goodreads, which is great for real reviews, gets placed above all the random booksellers websites.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#107

Post by jdironman » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 5:25 AM UTC

p-e-w wrote: post #104

freeAgent wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their privacy policy is here: https://kagi.com/privacy The short answer to your question is: yes, you can use it without linking any real-world identifiers to your search queries. That is explicitly stated in the linked privacy policy. With that said, I guess it's possible that they are violating their own privacy policy. That seems like a bad idea from a legal perspective, and I don't have any reason to suspect they…

Yeah I was actually hoping for an answer that doesn't require blind trust. So the correct answer seems to be "we absolutely could link your searches to your identity, but we promise that we won't; however, you cannot verify that we are keeping that promise". Which I'm afraid is not good enough. To be clear, I'm not saying that they are lying, and indeed I have no reason to suspect they are. But I'm looking for techno…

Why not just have a payment method that isn't linked to you?

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#108

Post by colordrops » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 5:25 AM UTC

geysersam wrote: post #83

colordrops wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are working out the kinks with the pricing scheme You mean being way too expensive? I appreciate them wanting to stay afloat but they need to bring the cost per search down drastically. They are doing something wrong behind the scenes with regards to spend or optimization.

Why do you think their prices are unreasonable? Just curious. 1.5 cents per search doesn't sound expensive, although if you do 100 searches per day that's $45 per month...

I easily do dozens of searches per day, occasionally hundreds, especially when debugging obscure issues. It shouldn't be the most expensive subscription I've got by far. Well it could be, but I better not have to go to google or something else to get answers, and it's not quite there yet.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#109

Post by Zetaphor » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 5:32 AM UTC

DanHulton wrote: post #70

I debated bringing up Kagi at the top level here, since I already commented on it in a reply, but honestly I really want them to succeed and shit like this is why. It's a paid search service, and I'm honestly really happy with that distinction and what it entails. Being paid means that they can deliver on and support features that users can use to get the best results for them, without worrying how those features may…

For those interested in something self hosted and open source, try SearXNG. I've hosting an instance from my NAS for over a year, it's been excellent, and I retain full control over my search history (or lack thereof)

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#110

Post by freediver » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 5:32 AM UTC

tannhaeuser wrote: post #99

freediver wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the founder of Kagi, I want to address the recent changes and challenges we have faced. When we made our initial plans, we believed they were both realistic and sustainable. However, the search market has experienced dramatic changes in the past six months, far more than in the previous 16 years. Additionally, we've been confronted with an economic downturn. As a small, bootstrapped business, Kagi has had to make…

By the changes in the search market, I'm assuming you mean the introduction of ChatGPT and the higher prices Bing is able to command due to bundling it, or rather the brand boost and raise of profit expectations at this time. Which would spell further trouble ahead for kagi and ddg going forward, wouldn't it?

You are correct, the ascent of ChatGPT and its impact on the search industry has been substantial. Fortunately, the swift commoditization of models (and rising pressure from open-source) is reducing their potential influence to pricing, quicker than we initially anticipated.

On the other handm, we were forced to reassess our approach due to the situation with Bing, which led us to invest further in alternative partnerships and strengthen our own infrastructure. And despite the challenges this transition presented, it ultimately instilled a renewed sense of optimism in our team.

The most difficult aspect of this process has been receiving emails from customers who felt let down by the way we managed the change. We are committed to learning from this experience and improving our communication and execution in the future.