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Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

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Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#21

Post by Riverheart »

joshjob42 wrote: post #18
xg15 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> being part of training data was fair use It's not though, and never has been. Why should it be? Why should people contribute to making their own jobs obsolete and not even be compensated for it? > It would be win/win In what way would this be a win for artists?

It’s fair use because training sets are useless except for creating a new thing which transforms the inputs into something new. It’s not merely selling photos that already exist or something. Stable Diffusion has only about enough bits in the weights to represent a single pixel out of each image in the training set.

“training sets are useless except for creating a new thing”

So by useless you mean absolutely essential?

Hard to argue the fair use thing but it was designed around humans not AI so just because it is fair use now does not mean it should or will be in the future.

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#22

Post by Riverheart »

scarface74 wrote: post #15
xg15 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> being part of training data was fair use It's not though, and never has been. Why should it be? Why should people contribute to making their own jobs obsolete and not even be compensated for it? > It would be win/win In what way would this be a win for artists?

> Why should people contribute to making their own jobs obsolete and not even be compensated for it? Haven’t technologist been saying for years about blue collar workers whose jobs have been made obsolete by technology that they should learn a new skill? Now that it’s hitting white collar workers, we are singing a different tune. And most of the time especially here on HN most people want an expansive definition of f…

Well there are only two types of collars, blue and white. Is there another shore to swim towards? Pretty typical human behavior.

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#23

Post by heyoni »

Riverheart wrote: post #21
joshjob42 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s fair use because training sets are useless except for creating a new thing which transforms the inputs into something new. It’s not merely selling photos that already exist or something. Stable Diffusion has only about enough bits in the weights to represent a single pixel out of each image in the training set.

“training sets are useless except for creating a new thing” So by useless you mean absolutely essential? Hard to argue the fair use thing but it was designed around humans not AI so just because it is fair use now does not mean it should or will be in the future.

What is this? I keep seeing it.

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#24

Post by Riverheart »

heyoni wrote: post #23
Riverheart wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“training sets are useless except for creating a new thing” So by useless you mean absolutely essential? Hard to argue the fair use thing but it was designed around humans not AI so just because it is fair use now does not mean it should or will be in the future.

What is this? I keep seeing it.

What is what? If you mean distinguishing between AI and humans, it’s exactly what it sounds like. Fair use is a legal construct not a universal truth and subject to change like anything else. Just like how the US Founders writing the 2nd amendment with muskets in mind didn’t foresee full auto assault rifles in the hands of citizens. In hindsight, overly permissive law, all things not equal, hello gun control.

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#25

Post by idontreadtheop »

deanCommie wrote: post #16

While this may seem quaint, let's review the github package's README: ``` Opt-out directives Websites can pass the http headers `X-Robots-Tag: noai`, `X-Robots-Tag: noindex` , `X-Robots-Tag: noimageai` and `X-Robots-Tag: noimageindex` By default img2dataset will ignore images with such headers. To disable this behavior and download all images, you may pass --disallowed_header_directives '[]' See [AI use impact]( http…

The idea that you should be able to publish information and then control how people use it is indeed popular, but claiming that failing to embrace this idea is inherently unethical … well, I’d say “citation needed” at a minimum.

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#26

Post by heyoni »

Riverheart wrote: post #24
heyoni wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this? I keep seeing it.

What is what? If you mean distinguishing between AI and humans, it’s exactly what it sounds like. Fair use is a legal construct not a universal truth and subject to change like anything else. Just like how the US Founders writing the 2nd amendment with muskets in mind didn’t foresee full auto assault rifles in the hands of citizens. In hindsight, overly permissive law, all things not equal, hello gun control.

I think my HN client was bugging out because all your comments were displaying as ** Ignore me

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#27

Post by vivegi »

I wonder what happens when sites start using techniques like Zip/Compression bombs to defend against impolite mass downloaders. Particularly, in this case of downloading images without honoring robots.txt, a PNG/JPEG/ZIP bomb [1] might be a countermeasure in this arms race.

[1]: https://www.bamsoftware.com/hacks/deflate.html

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#28

Post by eqvinox »

(from that project's README:)

> AI art is democratizing art and letting hundred of millions of people express themselves through art. Making art much more prevalent and unique

My contemporary art major friend blows a vein every time they read something like this. It's clear what it tries to say, but that's not art. It's fancy pictures. Which isn't to say it's somehow wrong, or doesn't allow people to express themselves — but if your creative input is limited to some AI prompt, then the art, if anything, is the prompt itself.

(And, just to be clear, the definition of "art" here isn't "you have to paint something yourself". It's "you have to perform a creative action yourself". It's fine if that action is just instructions — that's why the prompt could be art.)

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#29

Post by yarg »

gus_massa wrote: post #8
wmf wrote: post #5

This is a scraping tool that can download a list of URLs very fast. It's not an AI tool per se but the advertised use is to download corpora for AI training. Traditionally, polite Web spiders tried not to hit any one server too hard but when your goal is to download a bunch of data from a small number of sites fast you're inevitably going to be putting real load on each site. I'm not sure there's a solution that can…

I guess the "solution" is that sites detect abuse and ban the ip for 24 hours. When enough users of this tool get banned, they will fill the github issues tracker with complain and the maintainers will have to learn how to write a polite spider. We have the inverse problem in the university. We are all (many thousands) behind a proxy, so some popular sites detect the avalanche of request and add a captcha or other an…

I once accidentally got my company's office blocked from w3.org automatically downloading the schemas for some XML documents.

What then happens is all requests to w3.org then redirect to a page explaining how anyone automatically downloading those schemas from those URLs became part of an accidental DDOS attack.

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#30

Post by OscarCunningham »

eqvinox wrote: post #28

(from that project's README:) > AI art is democratizing art and letting hundred of millions of people express themselves through art. Making art much more prevalent and unique My contemporary art major friend blows a vein every time they read something like this. It's clear what it tries to say, but that's not art . It's fancy pictures. Which isn't to say it's somehow wrong, or doesn't allow people to express themsel…

By analogy, would the art of a photograph consist only of the location and orientation of the camera at the time it was taken?
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