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Some mistakes I made as a new manager

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Re: Some mistakes I made as a new manager

#41

Post by steveBK123 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #27
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So many unnecessary conflicts/dramas can be avoided by simple and honest communication. It's really not that simple in my opinion. The flow of information is "upper management wants this a certain way/at a certain time, I'm just the enforcer, if you don't work to accommodate/comply at a high priority, it's a problem" more often than not.

The problem I described was the opposite, actually: We often couldn’t tell what upper management wanted or was upset about because the manager was too “nice” to communicate it. We had multiple situations where something we built was unsatisfying to upper management for some reason, but couldn’t address it because the manager was avoiding negative communication or anything resembling confrontation. Getting it out in t…

Yeah I like to call these types of management "smile f**ers". My last org was like this. All smiles, everything great, everyones doing a great job.

Except that behind the scenes senior management was very unhappy about certain things, and our entire org got its clock cleaned over the following 18 months. Senior managers moved aside, others downgraded to IC roles, pushed a few people out, new leads hired from outside, etc etc.

Re: Some mistakes I made as a new manager

#43

Post by astockwell »

johndhi wrote: post #35

I'm a new manager and am facing a conundrum over a supposed super star who joined my team but, at least from what I can tell, is far and away the least productive member of my team. Any ideas?

One suggestion: Give it time. Many (myself included) are “slow boils”. Probably every manager I’ve ever had was kicking themselves for hiring me 6 months in, but past the 12 month mark and things have turned a corner. Anecdotal for sure, but every previous manager I’ve had continues to randomly ping me about job openings.

Re: Some mistakes I made as a new manager

#44

Post by ebiester »

johndhi wrote: post #35

I'm a new manager and am facing a conundrum over a supposed super star who joined my team but, at least from what I can tell, is far and away the least productive member of my team. Any ideas?

What are the full set of responsibilities of the team member? Are they being tied to previous projects? Is there something that is getting in their way? Is there a culture clash?

Also, understand that the new person is learning the context and team culture, and will take some time to get up to speed. How long have they been on the team? How long have you been on the team? The other team members?

There is a lot of context to consider. We can make a lot of assumptions based on our own experiences, but may end up sending you astray.

Re: Some mistakes I made as a new manager

#45

Post by rented_mule »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #23

> ANGSTING INSTEAD OF ASKING This is a great way of describing one of my biggest peeves in the office: So many unnecessary conflicts/dramas can be avoided by simple and honest communication. There’s a related dysfunction where managers are (wrongly) convinced that they must answer every question in the most positive and upbeat way possible. I had to leave a company once because my manager was frustrated with many peo…

I had to work hard to avoid being the "angsting" type of manager. I care deeply about the people around me and it can feel (to me) like I'm attacking them when saying things that might be challenging.

The first time I fired someone, I was completely crushed. But I was lucky to have that go particularly well in the long run. It was clear to me why this person wasn't going to succeed with us. I offered to give advice during their ensuing job search and they took me up on it. They had two offers at two very different companies. It was clear to me that they would have the same trouble at one but would fit the other. They had the same sense and they immediately found more success than they'd ever had before. A year later they reached out to tell me that firing them showed more care than any manager / mentor / teacher had ever shown them and it helped them take the next big step in their career.

It's still not easy for me to say things that I think might make people uncomfortable. But the experience of firing that person is a constant reminder that speaking hard truths is the deepest kind of caring a manager can show.

Re: Some mistakes I made as a new manager

#46

Post by steveBK123 »

> I asked people for feedback. I found that if I just asked “do you have any feedback for me?” people often wouldn’t, but if I asked more granular questions—“was that meeting useful?”—I would usually learn a lot from it.

This part is good. I think generally as engineers, a manager simply asking "do you have feedback for me" just feels like a trap. I don't know man, there's plenty of things you do that annoy me but like.. can we be more specific here?

The other side to this is - don't ask for feedback if you don't plan to action any of it. I worked for a guy who must have read a book that told him to ask for feedback, but he was so rigid that he would vehemently defend against any feedback he was given. Not like personal stuff either, but structure/length/schedule of meetings, standups, etc.

The "strong ideas loosely held" type guys need to be careful when they become management, because while it may work with peers (if they also love arguing), it doesn't work with a power imbalance. All your "strong ideas" will become "permanently held", congrats.

Re: Some mistakes I made as a new manager

#48

Post by ebiester »

flamebreath447 wrote: post #38
colinflane wrote: post #32

Thanks to the author. This resonated with me. It was helpful to see here a couple of the same issues I grappled with (to know "I'm not crazy"): feedback loops, prioritization / importance, communication. On the topic of the dreaded Micro-Management, I read recently somewhere, "better to micro-manage than to not manage at all". That also resonated.

No. If the only way you can manage is via micromanagement then you shouldn’t be a manager, end of story, period. The bar is far too low for managers already. The technical, communication and delivery bars are clear for developers at different levels. Managers have these too. You don’t settle with dog shit management skills. If I ever saw a manager doing this and didn’t improve they would see the door in short notice.…

Both no management and micromanagement are failure states. The parent is comparing two failure states.

But I think the key to point out is that most line managers have fewer than 5 years of experience. The good ones move up the chain and the bad ones return to IC work. Sure, some will stagnate in an organization but it's more common to see it as part of the early career. (In smaller organizations, directors and senior managers will also have teams, but they usually have larger swaths of experience and end up delegating a fair amount to tech leads.)

I will also point out that few engineering managers have proper training. Most of us had to pick it up as we went. You talk about a manager seeing the door in short notice: if you were their boss, would it even cross your mind to give feedback and training?

Re: Some mistakes I made as a new manager

#49

Post by 29athrowaway »

bboygravity wrote: post #24
29athrowaway wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Break the spirit of people that think lying has no consequences. Teach them a lesson, that they live in a country with people protected by rights.

There are A LOT of places in the world where lying is rewarded dearly. Including certain types of businesses in the US where lying a lot is basically a pre-requisite for company survival, growth and employee survival: banking, hedge funds and financial markets. The 2008 derrivatives crash was a concequence of that, the upcoming hyperinflation is a (predictable) consequence of that. More generally: ads lie all the tim…

False advertisement is illegal.

Defrauding investors is illegal.

As a society we should punish lying, not reward it or glorify it.

There is corruption in politics, academia, institutions of all sorts, such as what led to the 2008 crisis, but our goal should be to make it harder. We should aim for less corruption.

If your fantasy is to be one of the bankers that got rich in 2008, my fantasy is to see those bankers in jail.

Re: Some mistakes I made as a new manager

#50

Post by bluefirebrand »

mjr00 wrote: post #16
29athrowaway wrote: post #8

Always remember: as a manager you are still an employee, and you are still required to observe the law. Being a manager does not mean you are correct by default. It does not mean you cannot receive feedback from your managees. Also, a brief refresher: lying about someone is defamation. If you defame people's performance and cause them to lose money you are personally liable for damages. We should sue managers more, w…

> Also, a brief refresher: lying about someone is defamation. If you defame people's performance and cause them to lose money you are personally liable for damages. Genuinely curious: do you have an example of a manager who was personally held financially liable after firing an employee? I couldn't find an example in some brief Googling, but IANAL and I'm curious if this is even a possibility. Even if it is possible,…

> As long as there's a paper trail, you as an employee don't have much of a chance of winning a lawsuit, even if you feel like you were fired due to your manager being an asshole.

Yeah, if you want to win a wrongful dismissal lawsuit you're gonna have to have a hell of a paper trail yourself, or some smoking gun evidence of other wrongdoing like drunken voice mail recordings or something.

And even then, realistically, this sort of things settles out of court more often than not.

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