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Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

journals.sagepub.com

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Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#41

Post by dbtc »

ofalkaed wrote: post #2

It absolutely adds advantage to those interested in literature, it allows you to see your first language outside itself and generally increases your understanding of your first language. I would consider that a cognitive advantage but it is not exactly an advantage for the general public. Interestingly (at least to me) I have found programming languages* even more beneficial in this sense which I also find ironic, st…

Connections across cultures and broader abilities to empathize are exactly what a general public or a society needs to be healthy. Humanities should not try to assert its worth in utilitarian terms; by playing that game it has already given up its own.

I agree with programming's effect on natural languages, and I think it goes both ways. Programming makes me a more precise punctuator, while Shakespeare makes me comment in couplet.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#42

Post by ofalkaed »

jacquesm wrote: post #31
ofalkaed wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would probably say if you are going to go to learning a third language than you would probably have been better off studying linguistics instead of that second language which will make all language acquisition easier. But hindsight, how many learn a second language with the intent of learning a third or forth? and once you learn that third you probably are going to have a decent intuitive grasp on linguistics even…

Where I grew up, a small EU country just knowing the local language would be super limiting. Here we learn Dutch, English, German and French in high school, and I picked up some Polish while living there. I'm not exceptional at all here and I'm nowhere near where someone who studies linguistics is.

Sure, and if you learned linguistics you would have been able to pick up those languages more quickly with a better understanding. But like I already said, most should learn languages for pragmatic reasons, what it offers them, not for some vague reasons. I guess my point was that there would be advantage to having people study linguistics in high school instead of a second (or third or whatever) language, give the students the ability to understand language instead of a language that many just forget after highschool. This changes with where you are in the world, some like yourself need more than one language just to get by but I do not think that rules out the utility of learning language in a more foundational/fundamental way.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#43

Post by elbigbad »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #26
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #5

That seems to reflect my lived experience. Do bilingual people in general seem to be more intelligent? I don't think so. But, like many other things in life, the access of even a second language in my opinion gives you another tool to use as intellectual leverage to gain greater or richer understanding to many specific domains that you would otherwise require someone else to digest the information for you. That doesn…

If 'bilingualism' is expanded to include math and programming languages I would say it does effect intelligence directly. But then again I haven't met many super-geniuses to compare against.

If “bilingualism” is expanded even further to include having wealthy parents who are legacies at Harvard, I would say it does have an effect on outcomes.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#44

Post by rnjesus »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #36
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #5

That seems to reflect my lived experience. Do bilingual people in general seem to be more intelligent? I don't think so. But, like many other things in life, the access of even a second language in my opinion gives you another tool to use as intellectual leverage to gain greater or richer understanding to many specific domains that you would otherwise require someone else to digest the information for you. That doesn…

> But, like many other things in life, the access of even a second language in my opinion gives you another tool to use as intellectual leverage to gain greater or richer understanding to many specific domains that you would otherwise require someone else to digest the information for you. What are some of those domains, do you think?

personal example, but after studying mandarin for many years, i can read original texts (like novels, non-classic poetry, and so on) without having to wait for someone to translate it first

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#45

Post by slibhb »

tstrimple wrote: post #27
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #5

That seems to reflect my lived experience. Do bilingual people in general seem to be more intelligent? I don't think so. But, like many other things in life, the access of even a second language in my opinion gives you another tool to use as intellectual leverage to gain greater or richer understanding to many specific domains that you would otherwise require someone else to digest the information for you. That doesn…

I have to imagine there are parallel benefits as well. Just as a Java developer will become a better Java developer by learning programming languages with other paradigms, I have to believe knowing multiple spoken languages has tangible benefits outside of understanding the language itself.

I'm not so sure. Natural languages are not very much like programming languages.

When you speak a language fluently you're able to speak and understand without thinking about it. Children can be fluent with no formal training in grammar. Meanwhile, for me at least, programming is the opposite: I have to learn all the rules on a formal level and my mind can't wander while I'm programming at all.

I think the benefits of knowing more natural languages are pretty clear: the ability to speak to and understand more people. Plus the art, entertainment, and other cultural productions you get access to.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#47

Post by jimsimmons »

qsort wrote: post #39
tstrimple wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to imagine there are parallel benefits as well. Just as a Java developer will become a better Java developer by learning programming languages with other paradigms, I have to believe knowing multiple spoken languages has tangible benefits outside of understanding the language itself.

A Java developer becomes a better Java developer if they learn alternative concepts that Java doesn't empasize as much. Learning Lisp, Haskell or C is going to be useful, for example. But a Java developer won't become a better Java developer if they learn C#, which is basically Java with different capitalization conventions. I guess something like that happens for natural languages. You get those benefits if you acti…

A confounder in the above study could be that they counted pairs like European languages and English as two different languages when in reality they are very similar.

knowing english and german is not knowing two full languages imho. you’ll get more exposure to german culture but it’s not the same as knowing English and a slavic or asian language.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#48

Post by makeitdouble »

I couldn't get access to the article, and the abstract gives no relevant detail to what they are assessing on which subjects... do the other commenters have an access to it, or could eventually tell us more about how this study was done ?

Edit: pdf here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35682016&goto=item%3Fid...

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#49

Post by lisasays »

cubefox wrote: post #35

This seems mainly interesting for people from English-speaking countries, since everyone else nowadays is bilingual anyway.

Everyone else nowadays is bilingual anyway.

Uh, no. According to statistics (and everyday observation), slightly less than half of "everyone" is.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#50

Post by AdrenalinMd »

As someone fluent in four languages*, I agree. I would even argue that the opposite of an advantage is true. Consider this: it adds unnecessary cognitive load. When trying to think of a word, it comes to you in four different languages, which isn't helpful!

I speak four languages out of necessity, not by choice. When you can focus on fewer languages, your proficiency in them improves. Although I can speak four languages, I always feel as if I'm lacking a certain level of expertise in each one. I wish I only needed to speak one language, saving my mental capacity for other things. Constantly juggling languages doesn't help.

The main benefit of knowing multiple languages in everyday life is eavesdropping on people in the street speaking their language, but that's about it.

Moreover, all my friends from my country also speak four languages. Unfortunately, I don't hear of people from Moldova faring much better than others.

*My mother tongue is Romanian, but everyone in Moldova also speaks Russian (due to the Soviet past). At school, I learned French and later studied in France. I picked up English mainly through computers and the internet. Now, I'm in the Netherlands and need to learn another language, but this one is proving slow to learn. I don't feel any advantage in learning a new language either.

I would gladly trade Russian and French over knowing Dutch right now ;o) There are months when I don't speak those two so they are of little use for me anymore.

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