Microsoft considers adopting WebKit for Internet Explorer • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft considers adopting WebKit for Internet Explorer

#21

Post by Herring » Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 4:33 PM UTC

biohacker42 wrote: post #17

It makes sense. Apple did not chose it because they are commie hippies. They are a cut throat for profit company and they chose it because it is a free and good code base. And that makes development cheaper and faster - good for any for profit company, There is also no giving up of control to speak of. You can fork any time you like, and you can do what ever you like. You lose no control. So why wouldn't Microsoft do…

If you were Apple, you would want to decrease the costs of switching to a new browser. The same's not true for Microsoft.

Re: Microsoft considers adopting WebKit for Internet Explorer

#22

Post by nostrademons » Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 4:36 PM UTC

jfornear wrote: post #4

What are the advantages for Microsoft if they were to make the change to WebKit? I know developers would love it, but is it really worth giving up complete control on their end? When it comes down to it they have their own best interest in mind, not developers'.

From Microsoft's POV, the calculation comes down to whether browser rendering engines have become commoditized. Proprietary differentiation gives them no advantage unless customers prefer their version to the commodity one. I'm guessing Microsoft will be watching the success of other WebKit browsers carefully, along with their expenditures on the rendering engine vs. those on the browser chrome itself. If it turns out people are abandoning IE, or if they're spending most of their resources just trying to keep up with WebKit in standards compliance, they'll switch.

Re: Microsoft considers adopting WebKit for Internet Explorer

#23

Post by neilc » Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 5:10 PM UTC

Herring wrote: post #21

biohacker42 wrote: post #17

It makes sense. Apple did not chose it because they are commie hippies. They are a cut throat for profit company and they chose it because it is a free and good code base. And that makes development cheaper and faster - good for any for profit company, There is also no giving up of control to speak of. You can fork any time you like, and you can do what ever you like. You lose no control. So why wouldn't Microsoft do…

If you were Apple, you would want to decrease the costs of switching to a new browser. The same's not true for Microsoft.

MS would also face a considerable cost in emulating the various IE brokenness in a WebKit-based browser (and accurate emulation would be very important to a lot of people).

Re: Microsoft considers adopting WebKit for Internet Explorer

#24

Post by bradgessler » Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 5:14 PM UTC

That would be awesome if this happened. It makes a lot of sense too; proprietary HTML/JS parsing engines aren't necessarily a competitive advantage these days...

Re: Microsoft considers adopting WebKit for Internet Explorer

#25

Post by axod » Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 6:09 PM UTC

briansmith wrote: post #19

ivank wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has event bugs all the way back from IE6. It's not even close to compliant, except for the most complained-about things.

DOM 2 event support and other javascript issues are easy to work around. If you use any kind of framework like jQuery then you usually don't even have to worry about them.

That's a silly argument. The creators of the framework really have to worry about them.

IE8 seems to be worse than the rest. Once again my site is broken in IE8. Just like it was in IE7 when that came out. They can't even keep the same basic functionality as previous versions.

Re: Microsoft considers adopting WebKit for Internet Explorer

#26

Post by thwarted » Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 6:15 PM UTC

tlrobinson wrote: post #9

thwarted wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So multiple incompatible branches of IE and then multiple incompatible branches of WebKit? Mozilla 5.0 (Internet Explorer; Microsoft; webkIEt (like WebKit (like gecko))). No thanks.

Multiple incompatible branches of WebKit is still better than the current situation.

Multiple incompatible branches of webkit in an ecosystem that still has multiple incompatible branches of IE doesn't sound better, as it geometrically grows the number of renders that need to be tested against. There are some things that I wouldn't wish on even my worst enemies, and while multiple incompatible branches of webkit sounds like it would be better, it's still an undesirable situation.

If Microsoft uses webkit, I'd like to think it's because they have realized that a consistent web browser experience from a developer point of view is enabling across the industry, not because they just want to leverage all the hardwork of other companies and open source developers just to get a leg up on their marketing. The last thing I want to hear is Microsoft marketing saying "We use Webkit, the same engine that powers other browsers like Apple's Safari" and the masses eating that up, but when we, as developers, know that isn't the case.

Re: Microsoft considers adopting WebKit for Internet Explorer

#27

Post by snprbob86 » Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 6:29 PM UTC

lacker wrote: post #18

I'm sad to say it but this doesn't make sense. Strategically, the easier it is to develop web applications, the less people are dependent on Windows. It is to Microsoft's advantage to make web development as hard as possible. Therefore they will try to break compatibility whenever possible.

I still don't understand why everyone subscribes to this conspiracy theory...

Microsoft builds web apps. Lots of them. The IE issues suck for those teams too. Microsoft is building an online version of Office which needs to work in IE, FF, and Safari. They are also building a huge collection of Live services web apps. Why would they make it harder on themselves?

Re: Microsoft considers adopting WebKit for Internet Explorer

#28

Post by ivank » Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 6:42 PM UTC

neilc wrote: post #23

Herring wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were Apple, you would want to decrease the costs of switching to a new browser. The same's not true for Microsoft.

MS would also face a considerable cost in emulating the various IE brokenness in a WebKit-based browser (and accurate emulation would be very important to a lot of people).

If Microsoft adopts WebKit, they'll probably keep IE7 emulation mode in, as it is now in IE8. I doubt they'll try to port IE bugs to WebKit; there's just too many.

Re: Microsoft considers adopting WebKit for Internet Explorer

#29

Post by mattmaroon » Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 6:53 PM UTC

charlesju wrote: post #13

jodrellblank wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you're in luck, they're bringing the IE6 engine to Windows Mobile: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10039152-56.html

That is the worst idea ever, IE6 is such a piece of junk.

Yes but trust me, it's an improvement for Win Mo.

Re: Microsoft considers adopting WebKit for Internet Explorer

#30

Post by drusenko » Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 7:13 PM UTC

thwarted wrote: post #26

tlrobinson wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple incompatible branches of WebKit is still better than the current situation.

Multiple incompatible branches of webkit in an ecosystem that still has multiple incompatible branches of IE doesn't sound better, as it geometrically grows the number of renders that need to be tested against. There are some things that I wouldn't wish on even my worst enemies, and while multiple incompatible branches of webkit sounds like it would be better, it's still an undesirable situation. If Microsoft uses we…

the day microsoft marketing says "We use Webkit, the same engine that powers other browsers like Apple's Safari" is the day they die (death by flying chair)