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Russia killed its tech industry

technologyreview.com

211–220 of 285 posts

Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

where the state governments aren't behaving any better than Putin This is an insane thing to say. He is devastating an entire country. There are 354,000 people dead already. What is your evidence? https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-war-already-wit...

> There are 354,000 people dead already.

Your link says that as many as 354,000 Russian _and_ Ukrainian soldiers have been killed _or_ injured in the Ukraine war, but you present it as a number of people killed in a single country. Why doing that?

Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#212

There never was any real high tech industry. Everything good was done in gulags which my Russian schoolbook called "Nauki Gorods" ie science towns. Everything else was substandard garbage. However under harsh military rule labor camps work well to produce high tech. German V2-rockets and Curta calculators prove that. But there is time limit for that. You will run out of people.

TIL that Yandex campus where I used to work for so many years was a gulag. Okay.

Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#213
post #51

It's only mentioned briefly but a large percentage of emigres ended up in the same place, Cyprus. My wife's Russian dev team all slipped away to Cyprus. Cyprus was once very cozy with Russia and pitched itself as a vacation spot for Russian tourists. It cost them a lot to sign on to sanctions but they found a silver lining by acquiring a whole tech sector almost for free.

Cyprus is not a cheap place to live. Some people went there, but many more ended up in Georgia, Armenia, Serbia, Montenegro, Turkey and Kazakhstan. Why there? Well, these are the countries which let Russian citizens stay...

Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#214
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> defending smaller, but freedom loving, countries Lol. > Our grandparents told us stories about the russian army that many found hard to believe. And here we are proven that they were right all along. This is true for any military power, read stories about areas under occupation from "freedom loving" or "non-freedom loving" (?) military groups, and you'll find it is equally horrible no matter what country the groups…

Standards change though. I mean a lot of developed nations did atrocities a century or two ago but Russia is a bit behind the times.

> I mean a lot of developed nations did atrocities a century or two ago

I wish those atrocities were just "a centrury ago" but they're in fact pretty recent.

Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#215
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you count the US as developed or not, but in case you do, here are some highlights more recently than "a century or two ago": - Haditha massacre - Mahmudiyah rape and killings - Abu Ghraib prison - Enhanced interrogation techniques - Sơn Thắng massacre - Countless of others All by US officials and/or military members.

Obviously unfortunate, but tiny, isolated and unintended incidents. Handful of victims. Widely condemned by the society. Meanwhile, Russia is bombing countries and killing millions as a strategy of conquest, while most Russian are clapping approvingly.

The fact that most of Latin America was or is under non-democratic, rightwing governments is unfortunately not tiny, not isolated, totally intentional, with lots of victims and ignored by society.

Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#216
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Romania voted out their authoritarian ruler with a firing squad back in the mid to late 80s. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Ceau%C8%99escu

It could be said that Europe collectively voted out communism at the end of the 80's.

s/communism/socialism/g

Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#217
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are all biased and reality is too complex to argue about without simplifications, so that's not a great argument. However it's a good argument for distinguishing between simplifications introduced by feelings and the ones introduced by omission while trying impartial judgement, as these simplification premises would have different value to your listeners. > Do you really think that a loss of that million is insi…

>However it's a good argument for distinguishing between simplifications introduced by feelings It's not based on my feelings but on the personal experience and some research I did. All the smartest people I personally know and worked with have left the country. I also looked up the top 10 AI researchers at Yandex, and out of the ten I looked at only one was is still in Russia, that's a 90% loss for the top talent in…

> It's not based on my feelings > All the smartest people I personally know > I also looked up the top 10 AI researchers at Yandex > in the hottest industry at the (arguably) most innovative company in the country.

All of that is actually based on your feelings that (1) the people you know are smart enough to be qualified and counted among the brightest, (2) the AI software research and the researchers you personally know are more relevant to the points you make, than other research and the researchers you haven't met in other industries that Russia is excelling in.

> Sure thing, let's take two, scientists and entrepreneurs as their accomplishments are the easiest to quantify. The unit of measurement would be the influential papers written for scientists (measured by the number of citations) and for the entrepreneurs the market cap of the companies they started.

I disagree with the market cap metric because it's useless to compare without other constraints on the kind of businesses we're allowed to compare directly. For starters, a hypothetical company involved in the derivatives market may easily be evaluated higher than a profitable energy-producing company purely because of a higher speculative capacity of the former, since the markets allow for derivatives to exist as assets in the books. I disagree with that premise purely on a basis of the 2008 crisis that showed that those had never been assets manifested in reality.

I disagree with the influential papers' citation count too, because that measure would be subject to interpretation of influence. Are AI papers influential? Are all AI papers influential? You could get thousands of meaningless citations for a parroting AI architecture for every single meaningful citation of Perelman's proof of the Poincare conjecture. Which one of those would you value as more influential? I assume no one could seriously suggest that citations for AI software papers would have the same nominal value as citations of the fundamental proofs in mathematics or physics.

> Do you think the million people like the "MIPT, MSU and HSE graduates" that have left the country that the other guys are mentioning will do better on those dimensions versus the ones staying at rosatom/roskosmos/etc?

You are conflating two groups again: the million people left aren't all the kind of "MIPT, MSU and HSE graduates". Not all of them are the Techies in the first place. The right question to ask would be if I think that those who left have better chances to excel at science and business (regardless of their qualifications) than those who stayed. My answer to that question is no, I don't think so, because there's no hard evidence for that. There only is a hint that they might be better off financially if they dedicate their lives to making money in the industries that are known for generating loads of cash, like finance and tech. That's about it. Switch the roles and try comparing artists and less technical folks in their respective places at home and abroad, and the odds are suddenly opposite.

Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#218
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing Russia is known to be such a welcoming environment for people of colour.

The greatest Russian writer ever was black, Alexander Pushkin. Further the Russians tend to sympathise with subjects of racism as they for the most parts of the previous centuries were subjected to racism by countries to the west of them.

Just like Alexandre Dumas...

Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#219
post #56
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ever was black 1/64th black…

Nobody says that Obama is half-black...

Yeah, because they talk about racial identity, not just ancestry.

Is there any evidence that Pushkin identified as black, rather than being selected as the historical “black friend” to dismiss criticism of a modern state that is actively sponsoring global white supremacy?

Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#220
“Some 70% of the information on Yandex News was coming from state-controlled media sources pushing propaganda”

This article reads like US propaganda.

“Russia imposed increasingly restrictive laws, arresting social media users over posts, demanding access to user data, and introducing content filtering.”

The US performs similar actions. The Twitter files have shown demanding access and content filtering by the government with Twitter and likely other social networks. Recent arrest of left wing US citizens for criticism of the Ukraine war and social media blocking criticism or demonetizing contributors for criticizing the US role in Ukraine war. An attempt to install a Czar of disinformation into the Department of Homeland Security was thankfully stymied mainly due to the character of the individual chosen. Many other examples abound in the US of attempts to control opinions and access to social networks.

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