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Two types of C programmers

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Re: Two types of C programmers

#81
post #5

I'd consider myself the former: I use C because it's the only viable option for what I'm doing - but most of the time it's nothing to do with C itself, but the various extensions and builtins of GCC. It's the inline asm, the control of registers, placement of code and data, control of inlining, etc, which are missing from all of the C "replacements". The replacements assume you are building a user application on top…

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Re: Two types of C programmers

#82
I'm the former kind: I choose C because I like it above all else. [1]

That said, like the author, I'm trying to find an alternative. Well, more like I'm building my alternative because I hate Go. And Rust. And anything else.

I don't know why C fits my brain, but it does. I think it's because my brain is low-level; I like messing with assembler when I get the chance to optimize.

[1]: https://gavinhoward.com/2023/02/why-i-use-c-when-i-believe-i...

Re: Two types of C programmers

#83

I'm the former kind: I choose C because I like it above all else. [1] That said, like the author, I'm trying to find an alternative. Well, more like I'm building my alternative because I hate Go. And Rust. And anything else. I don't know why C fits my brain, but it does. I think it's because my brain is low-level; I like messing with assembler when I get the chance to optimize. [1]: https://gavinhoward.com/2023/02/wh…

How do you feel about zig?

Re: Two types of C programmers

#84

Why I love C? In a word, simplicity. A language designed by a single person. I also did program a lot in CLisp, a language designed by committee, with more than 100 different flow control directives(and people often create their own). I loved and love Lisp as a concept and tool, but hated CLisp complex design so badly. I programmed in Arc for a while because of that. I have created my own C compiler and interpreter.…

> In a word, simplicity. For fun, go to /usr/include and try to understand the system .h files.

This is why I've kinda built my own libc on the bare minimum that the system gives me. The POSIX and Windows API's are garbage; C the language is great.

Re: Two types of C programmers

#85
I am a C programmer. For me the language is a means to an end. I prefer to work on problems where both performance and code size is paramount. The kinds of problems where it makes economic sense to spend months or years of engineer time designing and implementing a solution that will compile to a 50kB binary.

I think primarily about the kind of machine code I want to generate, and pick a language that best approximates that ideal output code while still allowing the source code to be as clear as possible.

From these constraints I keep coming back to C. Zig is the most appealing contender in terms of next-gen languages.

If I could get safety without giving up anything, of course I would take it. But I am increasingly convinced that this is not generally possible.

Re: Two types of C programmers

#86
post #28

Tense is very important with this article. People who chose C. Whatever these reasons were that made someone chose C, that choice may have been made 20 years ago, and the choice may pan out very different if made now. But now you have 20 years of C experience…

I was not there in those days (somewhat young). I have still chosen C, and I chose it before I had experience with it. I just like the low-level nature.

Re: Two types of C programmers

#87

I'm the former kind: I choose C because I like it above all else. [1] That said, like the author, I'm trying to find an alternative. Well, more like I'm building my alternative because I hate Go. And Rust. And anything else. I don't know why C fits my brain, but it does. I think it's because my brain is low-level; I like messing with assembler when I get the chance to optimize. [1]: https://gavinhoward.com/2023/02/wh…

How do you feel about zig?

I hate it.

Re: Two types of C programmers

#88
I used C in the late 80s and 90s because it was the only viable option for many use cases. In the late 90s I got heavily involved in Java, and C usage dropped. Had some spikes of C++ work (which I despised), and then working in many different languages with no real work on C or C++ in at least 18 years or so.

What always killed me the most in C was the absolutely anemic standard library. OS’ had more libraries, but still very low level stuff.

Re: Two types of C programmers

#89

I'm the former kind: I choose C because I like it above all else. [1] That said, like the author, I'm trying to find an alternative. Well, more like I'm building my alternative because I hate Go. And Rust. And anything else. I don't know why C fits my brain, but it does. I think it's because my brain is low-level; I like messing with assembler when I get the chance to optimize. [1]: https://gavinhoward.com/2023/02/wh…

How do you feel about zig?

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Re: Two types of C programmers

#90
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> yet they miss that for Plan 9 and Inferno, they also decided to go with automatic memory management languages And which of these three operating systems won?

"Plan 9 failed simply because it fell short of being a compelling enough improvement on Unix to displace its ancestor. Compared to Plan 9, Unix creaks and clanks and has obvious rust spots, but it gets the job done well enough to hold its position. There is a lesson here for ambitious system architects: the most dangerous enemy of a better solution is an existing codebase that is just good enough." Source: https://ww…

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