CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg
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Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg
#892Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg
#893Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg
#894Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg
#895Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg
#896Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg
#897Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> The real problem is that many countries don't want to do innovation because it's expensive and/or they don't want to invest in the education necessary. oah, what batst nonsense is this? CATL and BYD's battery production output/capacity, or whatever innovation you claim China has achieved, is a function of the CCP's protectionist policy to prevent foreign competition and nurture domestic battery industry since 2016…
I don't know what you are smoking but it's some good shit. NCM, NCMA, LFP, sure chemistries are cool to talk about but all that actually matters is batteries that are actually shipping. LG Chem is claiming they can catch up, claiming they can start building LFP by 2026... only over a decade too late. CATL didn't develop LFP but they developed all the mass production techniques which is what counts in the market. No o…
>> NCM, NCMA, LFP, sure chemistries are cool to talk about but all that actually matters is batteries that are actually shipping. Wrong, NCM/NCA, not LFP, are the most popular/manufactured/shipped with 70% of the global EV market share. The majority of EVs in China for instance are running on NCM -- only last year China achieved almost 50/50 between NCM and LFP on new EVs. Most LDVs outside China are also NCM/NCA. Even in ESS market, NCM still dominates today; though LFP will take over since LFP is suitable for stationary, low-density use cases. I also already commented earlier that the majority of CATL's output is still NCM, which is based on LG Chem tech, not LFP.
>> LG Chem is claiming they can catch up, claiming they can start building LFP by 2026. CATL didn't develop LFP but they deve... Right now all I see is the Koreans claiming they can make up lost ground, Wrong. There is nothing to catch up -- LG Chem has no plan to use LFPs for EVs; nor did they ever have any "ground" in LFPs. They are not really interested in doing LFPs because of their low margin (and absurd LFP licensing fees; though they are now all, but expired). The Japanese/Koreans stayed away from LFP b/c of their low density and weight which in turn makes it unsuitable beyond stationary energy storage. LFP is far easier to manufacturer than NCM/A and subsequently cheaper, which is the main market driver for it, but the cost advantage of LFP isn't necessarily true anymore either: LFP is 20%-30% cheaper per Wh/kg compared to much older, least densest NCM532, but not against the recent high-nickel (811), most commonly used today on new EVs, or ultra-nickel (955) batteries, the emerging de facto industry standard; notwithstanding recent wild fluation in lithium/nickel price. LFP today is largely still limited to entry-level, non-performant, low-range EVs. Tesla uses NCMs from LG Chem for high-end models even in China and LFPs from CATL for lower, entry-level EVs.
>> ... by 2026+ and somehow then they will then become the dominant producers. ... No worries, it's widely expected that the Korean trio would dominate 70% of the North American market. Biden's IRA and the EU's CRMA no longer promises exclusive subsidies or ban against Japanese or South Koreans competition. LG Chem also announced last month that they are going to start enforcing patent rights on high-nickle NCM batteriese against Chinese battery makers (which is one of the main reasons why China has been aggressively moving towards LFP in and outside China).
>> ... They do this based on projections of CATL not growing at all which makes no fucking sense given they are entirely supply constrained right now ...Biden's IRA also takes a few steps further limits subsides on EVs made in China or EVs with batteries/material sourced from China. As of last week, even Tesla's entry-level EVs with Chinese LFP sold in the US are now partially excluded from receivign EV credits -- which explains why Tesla is now instead offering them in Canada. You should be familliar with this, since this is exactly China used to do to promote their own domestic makers CATL/BYD over foreign ones.
As for supply-constraint, it seems you are also quite slow to realize that battery constraints has easied substantially since the end of China's EV subsidies on Jan 1, 2023. The price of Lithium has more than halved since, for instance, and some Chinese processors are idling their factories to prevent further price drop (yes, they are still falling like a rock).
The only other bottleneck in EV battery supply-chain is the new "No China" constraints for battery and raw materials under Biden's new policies -- which in turns require severing ties with Chinese material suppliers, or pulling factories out of China -- will need at leat a year or two to build new domestic supply-chain in the US or its allies.
>> Protectionism doesn't and can't explain the sheer capacity of CATL/BYD. Sure, it does. You combine that with blatant IP theft, forced tech transfer, and generous subsidies, it works out. The inefficiencies born by China's protectionism are ameliorated by huge subsides that accounts for as much as 40% of the purchase cost in some Chinese EV models. Ditto, watch the US EV supply-chain and market develop under Biden's IRA over next couple of years.
Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg
#898Earlier quoted context omitted.
This assumes future regulations will allow you to do this. There are already examples of commercial fuels today that sell fuel only to commercial customers at a different rate. See "red diesel" in the UK - its just plain ole diesel taxed differently for commercial use, but illegal for use in privately owned personal vehicles. It's dyed red to allow its use in private vehicles to be discovered from the discoloration o…
> See "red diesel" in the UK - its just plain ole diesel taxed differently for commercial use, but illegal for use in privately owned personal vehicles. It's dyed red to allow its use in private vehicles to be discovered from the discoloration of engine parts etc. Maybe, but we're talking about the banning of ICE vehicles, not the banning of fuel. I mean, "you won't find fuel because it will be illegal to possess it"…
This is a bizarre point to make? Regulation of fuels and regulation or bans of ICE vehicles would obviously go hand in hand (it already does today!), if ICE vehicles were to be banned as discussed here. You can't have combustion without fuel... Controlling who can pump gas would be hugely important to the introduction of any hypothetical ICE ban.
My point also is not that fuel may be banned - it's that the regulations governing the pumps may be different than today, and that there is international precedent for this. If combustion really is largely relegated to commercial trucking by 2045, I'd be honestly shocked if the rules governing the pumps didn't change too in a lot of places.
look at the vast difference in fuel laws pretty much everywhere between today and the 1970s if inspiration required - remember we used to be able to buy leaded fuels?
Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg
#899Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems reasonable that most gas stations will add fast charging stations no? And then maybe add a coffee shop or quick food place that you can spend money at and be the real source of revenue for these locations. Its not going to be a cheap or painless conversion, but there is absolutely a path forward for most gas stations I think.
some of them. I think most will drop fuel completely, some will turn into stores where local buy milk or something, but many will close completely as not needed since people charge at home. In denser areas charging will move to mall like areas where people will get out of the car for longer. Gas stations are not generally not setup for people to hang out for 30 minutes, they don't have enough space for people to park…
Even without the pump islands, there isn't much room for customer parking. These stations are often situated at corners with multiple driveways, small parking areas, and no adjacent street parking. Unless you can merge adjacent parcels for redevelopment, these small stations may only be able to support a convenience store, coffee shop, drive-through food stop, or some other quick turnaround. They don't have the right layout to support lots of simultaneous customers unless they are arriving on foot or by mass transit instead of personal vehicles.
Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg
#900Earlier quoted context omitted.
Will there be gas stations, though?
Here in the UK, we call them petrol stations. But "gas" is still appropriate, because 15 years ago LPG conversions were all the rage, and every petrol station had gas too. Nowadays I can only think offhand of a single local retail fuel establishment that will sell you both US and UK "gas".
I assume the 11-ish litre butane capacity wouldn't be enough to be practical.