Since everyone is complaining about snap. I have to ask : what is wrong with apt and dpkg ?
I just want that, I guess it means back to Debian?
I’m not excited or interested about spending time dealing with a package manager.
Ubuntu 23.04 – 'Lunar Lobster'
41–50 of 62 posts
Re: Ubuntu 23.04 – 'Lunar Lobster'
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
What exactly is wrong with snaps?
Oh boy... - As a user: Snaps are annoying and don't work like a native app. It creates a new folder in my home directory, has little very consistency with other apps (even other packages of the same app), and feels generally unsuited for desktop use. If I'm going to use any of these godawful statically-linked-runtime package managers, it won't be the proprietary one. - As an admin: Snaps are alright. If you just need…
So basically their problem is "New Thing Scary, Grug No Like"?
Re: Ubuntu 23.04 – 'Lunar Lobster'
#43Snaps are BS. I did couple of months ago clean ubuntu 22.10 install. Somehow curl was installed from snap - of course I had problem saving curled files due sandboxing. Installed mosquitto2 (MQTT server) - of course it did not read my custom confs from /etc/... anymore - due sandboxing. Installed Libreoffice from snap - it Calc (excel alternative) was exctremely slow somehow - switched to Libreoffice from APT repo - i…
I bailed after 20.04 and have been a happy Pop_OS (Ubuntu minus all the snaps out of the box), Fedora and Arch user ever since. Definitely try Pop as it's the most direct move from Ubuntu--really the only diff you'll notice is a different default system theme and background picture.
Happy Fedora user, here. I love it. I do miss the AUR from Arch, though. I miss absolutely nothing about Ubuntu.
Re: Ubuntu 23.04 – 'Lunar Lobster'
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Slow, proprietary, auto update, sandboxed (which causes integration problems with other things). Solves a problem for Canonical and makes everyone else's life harder.
Sandboxing is a necessary evil - the Linux security model for applications installed on your computer is atrocious. The two main options we have to fix it are either a fine-grained capabilities model, or a coarse-grained sandboxing model - and the latter is an order of magnitude less work to implement. However, Snaps do an impressively poor job of implementing a sandbox.
Simply not necessary for normal applications running on my local desktop. And yes, I do work in security.
Re: Ubuntu 23.04 – 'Lunar Lobster'
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sandboxing is a necessary evil - the Linux security model for applications installed on your computer is atrocious. The two main options we have to fix it are either a fine-grained capabilities model, or a coarse-grained sandboxing model - and the latter is an order of magnitude less work to implement. However, Snaps do an impressively poor job of implementing a sandbox.
Simply not necessary for normal applications running on my local desktop. And yes, I do work in security.
I don't care if you work in security - the fact is that I have to completely trust every application that I want to run on Linux, which is unacceptably bad, and "Simply not necessary for normal applications running on my local desktop" is factually false (unless you're using some "gotcha" convoluted definition of "normal").
A sanely-designed OS will provide either capabilities or sandboxing - the tech has been around for decades, and they're more needed than ever in the 21st century with its abundance of malware.
Re: Ubuntu 23.04 – 'Lunar Lobster'
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sandboxing is a necessary evil - the Linux security model for applications installed on your computer is atrocious. The two main options we have to fix it are either a fine-grained capabilities model, or a coarse-grained sandboxing model - and the latter is an order of magnitude less work to implement. However, Snaps do an impressively poor job of implementing a sandbox.
> Sandboxing is a necessary evil Can you elaborate on the "necessary" part? I'm able to accomplish my computing goals without snaps.
"Necessary" because Linux's security mitigations are unacceptably insecure for the 21st century. As it stands, I have to completely trust applications before I run them, and there's literally no reason for that to be the case - sandboxing is a straightforward mechanism, not a tricky problem like Traveling Salesman.
Re: Ubuntu 23.04 – 'Lunar Lobster'
#47Snaps, flatpack, whatever, comes down to the core problem with linux, little binary compatibility between distro versions. The entire OS and all apps are recompiled on latest versions of compiler and libraries. Its a bandaid fix for a fundamental problem with the entire ecosystem of linux flavors.
This was the same issue that passed onto linux based android os, requiring updated blobs for drivers, held older android devices to older versions.
And same issue for ARM flavors.
Re: Ubuntu 23.04 – 'Lunar Lobster'
#48Canonical really seem to have lost their mojo. They've had a long-running tendency to forge on ahead regardless with fingers in ears, instead of listening to their userbase about what they actually want. Forcing snaps on users being a prime example of this behaviour. As a consequence, many users are jumping ship to other distros, and who can blame them? In fact, I'm in the same camp. I'm imminently replacing a very n…
I agree completely with all of that. My added difficulty is that I use a lot of hosts and they are a mix of AMD64, Arm, Arm64, and RV64GC so having a single distribution on all simplifies my life. Ubuntu in my experience has the best support for that set, but I experimented with Arch, Debian, Fedora, and OpenSUSE as well. I'd welcome insights, but Fedora appears most promising for me with Debian a close 2nd. (Arch is actually awesome, but package support is very mixed).
Re: Ubuntu 23.04 – 'Lunar Lobster'
#49> "This Ubuntu milestone release demonstrates our progress in raising the bar for the enterprise developer desktops, thanks to our best-in-class Linux integration with Active Directory (AD) Domain Services and now Azure Active Directory," said Canonical CEO Mark Shuttleworth. I specifically moved to 20.04 and 22.04 when they touted this. I don’t see anything amazing here though, even on the desktop side. Eventually I…
> Am I missing something? There's a good synopsis of what's new in this release here: https://www.howtogeek.com/883728/whats-new-in-ubuntu-23-04-l...
I didn’t see anything about AD or azure in there though.
Re: Ubuntu 23.04 – 'Lunar Lobster'
#50Why settle for a substitute? Just use Debian. More honest, more free, no commercial shenanigans and no snaps.
I've been a Debian user on all my laptops, desktops and servers for 25 years and counting, it's the best there is, for me.