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Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

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Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#101

Post by JasserInicide »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #46
JasserInicide wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh yes and no. "Traditional" engineering professions, ones where you need to get licensed, are all grounded in physics. Software engineering isn't (ignore the fact that bits running on silicon is physics, it's irrelevant). Software engineering is based on best practices and algorithms that are based on...some guy writing them, saying they're good, and others trusting that they're good. There's a million different way…

Engineering = Applied Physics. Software Engineering = Applied Math. Both are about modelling, so you have a good idea if a solution works before you build it. If you're gluing stuff together and hoping it's not going to fall apart too often you're not doing either.

If you're gluing stuff together and hoping it's not going to fall apart too often you're not doing either.

That's precisely what the majority of "software engineers" are doing nowadays. That's what web development is. Those that are creating tools other developers use and build things using algorithms/data structures in novel ways (essentially applied math as you said), they are the real software engineers in my eyes.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#102

Post by ulrashida »

Professional engineers are typically:

* Regulated by a profession and associated legislation

* Work first to ensure the safety and welfare of the public

* Perform only within their area of competence

* Act as faithful agents or trustees for their clients

* Avoid deception and represent matters in an objective and truthful manner

* Invest in continuous professional development

* Can be subject to penalties for malpractice: removal of licence, fines, or jail

It's hard to see any of these applying to LLM input entry people. It's a even a stretch to consider them non-professional engineers.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#103

Post by nodemaker »

ozim wrote: post #66
cjbprime wrote: post #11

It's okay; software engineering isn't real either. (In many countries, the word "engineer" is regulated -- you can't call yourself an engineer without professional qualifications and oversight.) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_and_licensure_in_...

Isn't real? You write about people who sling PHP or Javascript spaghetti? I have engineering degree in computer science (I think it is mostly thing in eastern Europe, you have bunch of electronics, math, computer architecture to learn), I worked on automotive software which is I have to say fairly regulated. Where you have to care for things like ISO or MISRA standards in your code. I don't mind people calling themse…

Changing a bunch of bits on a magnetic drive or another media is not like building an airplane that flies or a car that runs! Software engineering is closer to a priest that supposedly can communicate to god than it is to someone that builds a car!

I have a CS degree too and people without it are sometimes much better than me at slinging code

Actually forget people, you should realize how far this is from engineering when ChatGPT can do it better than me :) Ask ChatGPT to build a car though and we will see how far it gets.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#105

Post by vimax »

ulrashida wrote: post #102

Professional engineers are typically: * Regulated by a profession and associated legislation * Work first to ensure the safety and welfare of the public * Perform only within their area of competence * Act as faithful agents or trustees for their clients * Avoid deception and represent matters in an objective and truthful manner * Invest in continuous professional development * Can be subject to penalties for malprac…

Hard to apply those to software engineering as well.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#106

Post by kahrl »

wg0 wrote: post #23
cjbprime wrote: post #11

It's okay; software engineering isn't real either. (In many countries, the word "engineer" is regulated -- you can't call yourself an engineer without professional qualifications and oversight.) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_and_licensure_in_...

I personally do not think Software engineering is a thing. There are opinions on how to structure Software even within same language and framework and there's little objective procedure to rate one way better that the other and there's one, that kind of performance gains usually are negligible. But prompt engineering? Based on what knowledge exactly?

Are you saying the definition of engineering means there is only one correct way to do things? What is this comment even trying to say?

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#108

Post by runjake »

vimax wrote: post #105
ulrashida wrote: post #102

Professional engineers are typically: * Regulated by a profession and associated legislation * Work first to ensure the safety and welfare of the public * Perform only within their area of competence * Act as faithful agents or trustees for their clients * Avoid deception and represent matters in an objective and truthful manner * Invest in continuous professional development * Can be subject to penalties for malprac…

Hard to apply those to software engineering as well.

In most jurisdictions, a professional engineer is essentially a specific legal thing.

In most jurisdictions I am aware of, software engineers are not professional engineers. I am sure there are many exceptions.

That said, I think all of the above are rather easy to apply to SWE aside from, arguably, the first bullet point.

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