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Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

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51–60 of 206 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#51

Unity has “customer support engineers” iirc. The USA misuses the term endlessly

> The USA misuses the term endlessly

Well most of corporate america certainly does, but they can just as easily be multinationals so its not really the USA other than they may have registered the entity here.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#52
I think the proper term for the job should be Prompt Alchemist.

We've seen this before. Back when Google was a search engine, you'd eventually get a feel for how things worked, and build a vocabulary of "spells" that give the results you want, without using the common words with many overloaded meanings. (Example: Annotation instead of mark up, when trying research the Marking Up of Hyperlinked Texts)

Similar things proved to be true of Stable Diffusion and the image generators. It seems quite reasonable to conclude the same will be true of GPT4 and its kin.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#53

Software engineering is also snake-oil. Yes, software can be engineered, but that's not what the vast majority of so-called software engineers are actually doing at their jobs. The title mostly exists to inflate the importance of a programmer with years of experience under their belt. In reality, most of them couldn't explain to you what engineering itself is, and their job primarily consists of duct-taping and build…

Most SWE is snake oil, take one look around and you'll see what I mean...

React..? Golang? GUIs?! We stepped too far from The Truth (vim, ghc) and now we are all Oilers.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#54
Don't take names so literally. They're just useful labels that help us categorize things and communicate shared meaning. At this point, people know what you mean if you say "prompt engineering".

Prompt engineering feels like a quite appropriate name because there is a lot of experimentation and refinement to find good ways to interact with these models (I.e. good prompts!).

It doesn't perfectly map to "engineering", but it maps pretty well. What else would you call an iterative process of experimentation and refinement?

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#55
post #9

Think of it more as "prompt-fu", akin to "google-fu"--or how to google. You do have to know how to talk to an LLM, and it will be important. But it's not so much engineering, as we come to think of it in software traditionally. I wouldn't get hung up on the name, but just see it for what it is--a bad name for something we'll need to learn to be effective. It won't go away entirely, but will be mitigated to be less im…

LLMs are very quirky. They need the correct context to produce something good and it’s often surprising what that needed context is. OP just play around with midjourney and you’ll soon realize that it is a very real thing

100%. People who have not tried to interact with these models don't understand there is actually quite a lot of skill in navigating the latent space.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#57
post #14

It's okay; software engineering isn't real either. (In many countries, the word "engineer" is regulated -- you can't call yourself an engineer without professional qualifications and oversight.) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_and_licensure_in_...

When a building collapses you can’t just reboot it But in software you can simulate and test all you want before connecting it to the real world

To be fair, when the building collapses in the CAD simulation, you just "reboot" it with different parameters. Civil engineers don't actually put bricks or weld a metal.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#58
post #15

I think alchemy is a better word. Anyway, if you're trying things iteratively it becomes more a science. Engineering is more like designing stuff and building them without trying lots of things first.

I believe the words you are looking for would be, it becomes more a science when you attempt to reduce to first principles (which happens iteratively but not necessarily the other way around).

Engineering takes a first-principled approach, where upon knowing those principles you can then construct abstractly without physically building first.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#59

Software engineering is also snake-oil. Yes, software can be engineered, but that's not what the vast majority of so-called software engineers are actually doing at their jobs. The title mostly exists to inflate the importance of a programmer with years of experience under their belt. In reality, most of them couldn't explain to you what engineering itself is, and their job primarily consists of duct-taping and build…

Most SWE is snake oil, take one look around and you'll see what I mean... React..? Golang? GUIs?! We stepped too far from The Truth (vim, ghc) and now we are all Oilers.

SWE snake oil is like "Extreme Programming", "whiteboard interviews", "design patterns", "microservice architecture"...

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs are very quirky. They need the correct context to produce something good and it’s often surprising what that needed context is. OP just play around with midjourney and you’ll soon realize that it is a very real thing

100%. People who have not tried to interact with these models don't understand there is actually quite a lot of skill in navigating the latent space.

It really should be just an intermediate phase. Proper, solid control system must be created. First you have Stable Diffusion, then you create ControlNet - and this as just a beginning.

This is also one of the reasons why the problem of transparency ("but why and how does it work?") is so important in Machine Learning: allowing control.

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