Have there been any reports on how easy it is to jailbreak these? I would expect technique in that area to be well-developed.
John Deere 'Kill Switch' renders stolen tractors useless (2022)
61–67 of 67 posts
Re: John Deere 'Kill Switch' renders stolen tractors useless (2022)
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure we have proof it's that effective. Recently 400+ phones were stolen from a store in a well prepared way, so I assume there's plenty of ways to work around or get value from the stolen phones despite whatever Apple is doing: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/06/washington-apple-store-...
I wouldn’t be surprised if activation lock causes _more_ theft. If stolen devices are worth less due to activation lock, thieves need to steal more phones to make up the lost profits. Also, the data on a phone is almost always far more valuable than the phone itself. If a thief steals my phone, it’s much better for me if they erase it. But they can’t do that, so my stolen phone with all my data just sits there one ex…
> thieves need to steal more phones to make up the lost profits.
Unless these thieves were rolling in money previously, I would imagine they maximize theft as much as they possibly can — why would they leave money on the table? I don’t think they’re stealing to meet some monthly quota like hired hands on a farm; they should just be acting on a risk/reward function.
And as such, I think the more likely scenario as phones decrease in value per theft, other objects are made relatively more valuable (per risk/reward), and theft would transition elsewhere.
Re: John Deere 'Kill Switch' renders stolen tractors useless (2022)
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If the owner was in control of the kill-switch, it would still have all benefits of theft protection, without the problems that arise with a manufacturer controlling devices indefinitely. Apple has a similar feature for its devices that is in control of the user, but ultimately it's still depends on the device connecting to the internet and getting a ping that it's "lost" from Apple's servers. There's not really an…
At that scale it should be trivial to self host a server with a static IP that confirms the ownership. Make the server IP on the tractor password protected or smth. Modern tractors are internet connected anyway.
> trivial to self host a server
Trivial for who? Someone on HN or everyone else?
Re: John Deere 'Kill Switch' renders stolen tractors useless (2022)
#64This is the different sign of the same coin. Not you, but JD controls the kill-switch. They can disable a device to render it useless whenever something happens that they don't like. Whether it's theft or violation of your leasing terms. If the owner was in control of the kill-switch, it would still have all benefits of theft protection, without the problems that arise with a manufacturer controlling devices indefini…
> If the owner was in control of the kill-switch, it would still have all benefits of theft protection, without the problems that arise with a manufacturer controlling devices indefinitely. Apple has a similar feature for its devices that is in control of the user, but ultimately it's still depends on the device connecting to the internet and getting a ping that it's "lost" from Apple's servers. There's not really an…
My Apple device was locked without ever being reported stolen. Just happened one day. It is an older iPad which belonged to family member who has passed on and has a bunch of photos and notes on it. I was a fool to provide that device for them to use no matter how convenient it was at the time.
Re: John Deere 'Kill Switch' renders stolen tractors useless (2022)
#65This is the different sign of the same coin. Not you, but JD controls the kill-switch. They can disable a device to render it useless whenever something happens that they don't like. Whether it's theft or violation of your leasing terms. If the owner was in control of the kill-switch, it would still have all benefits of theft protection, without the problems that arise with a manufacturer controlling devices indefini…
> If the owner was in control of the kill-switch, it would still have all benefits of theft protection, without the problems that arise with a manufacturer controlling devices indefinitely. Apple has a similar feature for its devices that is in control of the user, but ultimately it's still depends on the device connecting to the internet and getting a ping that it's "lost" from Apple's servers. There's not really an…
> I just feel like "self hosting" isn't a real company solution to a kill switch, so I'm not sure how you have a kill switch without interacting with the company in any way, even if you're not John Deere.
You can’t have any (online) interaction with the company. Even OTA updates can’t be trusted if the company wants to act against your interests or the interests of your country.
Individual farmers need 100% control and I would argue that the only way to accomplish that is to require physical access for all updates and no kill switch at all.
Tractors aren’t close to cell phones. No one is naively and unknowingly buying a stolen tractor off of Craigslist. Engraving serial numbers on parts is a viable theft deterrent if everyone in the industry refuses to buy stolen parts.
Re: John Deere 'Kill Switch' renders stolen tractors useless (2022)
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep, absolutely true -- I worked on the project ("FDR / New Deal"). It was originally supposed to prevent a repeat of the Hon Hai Zhengzhou incident where a team of line workers mixed/matched parts from units that failed QC and sold the Frankensteined units on the grey market. (Massively oversimplified, but that's the general gist) The resulting near-total inability to swap screens/buttons without knowing someone wit…
By who? And did you see it that way? If that project came my way, it would have been a hard no, go find someone else. You literally implemented the most public unfriendly feature I've seen in a long time. That's one of those cases where sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. While I understand we are all entitled to differently prioritizing ethical red lines, it saddens me whenever I see the public suffering f…
It took the theft of phones from honest folks to make those 'extra parts' available in the past. I personally don't want these 'extra parts' on the market even if it ends up increases repair prices for everyone.
Re: John Deere 'Kill Switch' renders stolen tractors useless (2022)
#67This is the different sign of the same coin. Not you, but JD controls the kill-switch. They can disable a device to render it useless whenever something happens that they don't like. Whether it's theft or violation of your leasing terms. If the owner was in control of the kill-switch, it would still have all benefits of theft protection, without the problems that arise with a manufacturer controlling devices indefini…
If the owner were in control of the kill-switch, and the owner were killed, perhaps by Russian forces, then the tractor is stolen?