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Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

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Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#21

It's okay; software engineering isn't real either. (In many countries, the word "engineer" is regulated -- you can't call yourself an engineer without professional qualifications and oversight.) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_and_licensure_in_...

An engineer is generally liable for what they sign off on. Software engineering isn't anything like that and all products are filled with legalese to restrict liability.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#22

It's okay; software engineering isn't real either. (In many countries, the word "engineer" is regulated -- you can't call yourself an engineer without professional qualifications and oversight.) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_and_licensure_in_...

I don't think a country charging fees to bless a word makes a profession more or less real.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#23

It's okay; software engineering isn't real either. (In many countries, the word "engineer" is regulated -- you can't call yourself an engineer without professional qualifications and oversight.) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_and_licensure_in_...

I personally do not think Software engineering is a thing. There are opinions on how to structure Software even within same language and framework and there's little objective procedure to rate one way better that the other and there's one, that kind of performance gains usually are negligible.

But prompt engineering? Based on what knowledge exactly?

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#25

Is this just about gatekeeping the word 'engineer', so that its purity isn't tarnished? I know that software engineers were scoffed at by electrical engineers, who I bet were scoffed at by mechanical engineers, who were probably scoffed at by, you know, people who built siege engines or whatever. Is prompt engineering 'real' engineering? It seems easy enough to test whether knowledgeable, self-proclaimed prompt engin…

IMHO - software engineering really isn't real engineering. Not in the traditional sense.

But it certainly is based on knowing the inner workings of all or as many and as much of the abstraction layers.

But who's a prompt engineer? Is anyone who understands how Tensors and Transformers work is a prompt engineer? Are prompt engineers model specific? I'm GPT-3.5 prompt engineer and we have a job openings for Alpca or StableML prompt engineers?

Lastly, if these LLMs are so intelligent and have so much deeper understanding as their emergent capability - why prompt engineering is needed in the first place?

You generally don't need prompt engineering even with average IQ humans unless one is trying to swindle someone.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#26
I think the word Engineering means your own grasp on the subject/task at hand. For example, you can't engineer a prompt that would lead to a result outside of the scope of what the model/interface is capable of doing. You can, however, engineer a prompt that will refine the result to get exactly what you want.

In other words, you also have to understand the text that you're getting back from your prompts, and then "engineer" the prompt to fish for better results. AI itself can do this to an extent, but over-engineering is also a thing, as is the fact that AI itself does not actually know what you want.

That's all there is to it. Refine, revise, engineer - all just buzzwords that lead to the same end result: a game of ping-pong between you and the LLM.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#28

It's okay; software engineering isn't real either. (In many countries, the word "engineer" is regulated -- you can't call yourself an engineer without professional qualifications and oversight.) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_and_licensure_in_...

Engineering is a practice. Like medicine, but we’re building machines that run in a virtual space. We architect and build houses in our minds. We send those projects to production to make the business money.

That’s engineering.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#29
Any form of engineering involves a certain degree of reliance on abstractions, e.g. a civil engineer really doesn't need to know everything about the molecular structure of steel and concrete to successfully design and build a structure such as a bridge.

What does matter is having stable, predictable abstractions that you can rely on, so in software engineering it would be a mistake to rely on system-dependent undefined behavior when using a language like C++. You also don't necessarily need to know what kind of low-level optimizations the compiler and linker are using to generate your executable binary, though in some cases it could be important.

With LLMs, however, it's not really clear if the same prompt always gives the same kind of output, and you can do 'regenerate response' with something like ChatGPT to see this in action.

In some sense, 'prompt engineering' can be more like 'interviewing an engineer' in that LLMs seem to provide better outputs if you start with a broad, general question and then narrow down to your specific interest over a series of questions. Helping the LLM out by defining context, asking it to expand on a specific output it generated, pointing out where it may be hallucinating etc. all appears to improve the quality of output but I don't know if this kind of iterative process is really 'prompt engineering', maybe 'prompt optimization' is a better word for it?

In other words, writing a series of prompts to an LLM that gets you the answer you need feels quite unlike writing a Python script to automate some task. You can plan the latter out from start to end, but the former is this back-and-forth process.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#30
One definition of "engineer" is "to plan or do something in a skillful way:". Example: "The administration engineered a compromise."

I'd say even in this example, there's more a sense of searching through a range of different options to achieve specific properties. This is the sense of "prompt engineering": you use skills to create prompts -- in part by searching through various alternatives -- that have specific properties.

[1] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/engineer

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