131–140 of 166 posts
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Jup jup. "PHP is used by 77.5% of all the websites whose server-side programming language we know." https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-php
That's because of Wordpress, but still.
PHP is still what I use for my personal projects. Sublime + SFTP plugin & any shared hosting (all also give at least 1 MySQL). Phpmyadmin I know with my eyes closed but can also default to a static db like SQLite. It is very fast for me to start, test & itterate. I've also tried Node but idk sometimes it can hugg memory and even crash, which just never happened with PHP. It is a little sad but I don't really care any…
* PHP documentation sucks. It’s demonstrably incomplete in important cases, and I guess to make up for it they allow anyone with a browser to add comments and examples, many which are distracting and very poor quality. Furthermore, things that start mattering at scale, like memory management, database connection configuration, etc. seem to be solved but completely undocumented.
* As a result the internet is littered with millions of additional “happy path” examples, many of which are outdated as well.
* PHP doesn’t have a big corporate sponsor who is putting serious resources towards improving documentation, tooling and other resources. I would love for Facebook or Etsy or someone who’s gotten a lot of milage out of PHP to take the lead here.
* PHP is European/Israeli led (in the sense that many core devs seem to be there), and a lot of materials don’t seem to cross the pond. (Maybe we Americans put more value in hype and marketing… I don’t know.)
* PHP has warts, which “senior” devs nit-pick mercilessly, yet it really isn’t any worse than JavaScript in that regard. (For some TypeScript-hidden runtime bugs are culturally allowed to be ignored, because TypeScript is cool. JavaScript/Node forces you to use an event loop whether that makes sense or not. Etc.)
* Again, without a large, corporate backer, anyone thinking about “career” worries about getting a job, because there are not large corporate backers. (See how this works?)
The whole situation reminds me of where JavaScript was around 2010: Things have gotten seriously better but the wider-world had not caught on yet. PHP has some very impressive engineering and has proven itself again and again as a solid option, that is, it’s not perfect but it’s good enough.
Where it ends up is hard to say: Maybe it’ll end up like BSD Unix, with ardent fans but not the most popular kid.
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> Modern php code uses Frameworks, Package mangers, opcode caching, and application servers. How do these change the way you can deploy PHP files by simply uploading them? For frameworks, all you do is run a single command to install. If you mean JS package managers, that's agnostic to what language you use. Opcode caching doesn't require anything special from deployment point of view and I don't see a need for app s…
It changes deployment because you need to flush the opcache after deploying new code, for example; you need to install composer packages, restart the app server (if you use one), etc. I mean obviously you still upload files, but there are more steps involved in a proper deployment. Once you start getting into zero-downtime deployments, you'll quickly see the need for both application servers like Swoole or RoadRunner…
I like the php-fpm design of having a persistent server to run code rather than starting a process for every request. I would like the convenience of replacing one file somewhere and have the file be picked up by the server, similar to PHP. I would also like to separate release and deploy and do an atomic load of the server. I think there are Clojure projects to preload the JVM.
I like the php-fpm design of having a persistent server to run code rather than starting a process for every request. I would like the convenience of replacing one file somewhere and have the file be picked up by the server, similar to PHP. I would also like to separate release and deploy and do an atomic load of the server. I think there are Clojure projects to preload the JVM.
what do you mean by separate release and deploy?
So when I upload the new version of the code, I can decide to release the feature when I choose to, rather than automatically at deployment time.
I think people use feature toggles to separate release and deploy.
I went from a WP/Laravel dev to .NET Framework and now .NET 5+. For me PHP has always suffered from two primary camps: ancient codebases that people don't dare touch, and poor tooling. The former came mostly from the PHP camp. The lack of OOP where it was pretty desperately needed was unproductive at best, and at worst yielded a codebase that was so unmaintainable we had to double any time estimates for backend work.…
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They’re solving problems for people who are stuck using PHP, not trying to find a market niche.
That can work for a while but it doesn’t attract new developers, and it tends to have legacy projects be replaced outright with new ones in better languages.
There’s no niche that PHP needs to fill except for “a language for people who don’t want to move off of PHP.”