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The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

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Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#441

Post by jacooper »

willcipriano wrote: post #67
HeckFeck wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, we will have ministers say 'We need to force the evil big tech companies to break encryption so terrorists and perverts can be caught' and the next week they'll warn of the dangers of Russia hacking into vital infrastructure, and the urgent need for strong cybersecurity strategies. A bewildering and curious lot our leaders are.

Clinton's emails, that are rightfully a matter of public record (unless they were classified, then she should've went to jail) get leaked, and it's the end of the world and calls the election into doubt. The same people want to read the communications of private citizens. They aren't even pretending that there isn't a double standard anymore.

They never did, they are important, you are not therefore somehow they deserve to spy on everyone.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#442

Post by colinsane »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #415
colinsane wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some countries have a public policy of “don’t negotiate with terrorists”. it’s so tempting for me to adopt the same policy in my own life. if a burglar showed up at my door demanding entry, i wouldn’t debate them about why it’s morally preferable that they don’t enter against my will. but when it’s some politician demanding entry, suddenly everyone thinks i ought to engage in that debate. no. better to dispel the myt…

Sounds like you dont vote, too.

you probably believe simultaneously that i:

- don’t vote.

- if handed a ballot with this issue on it, would mark the “no” column.

and if that were the case, i propose that you consider more seriously that second point. if voting is the path to better outcomes, you want always (1) more voter turnout AND (2) more precise translation of voter preference into policy.

i feel that what we’ve got today is something like a B, B- on voter turnout, but an unambiguous F on how votes drive policy. that if our democracy was somehow such that the conversation being had was “don’t forget to vote against EARN IT on your ballot” instead of “don’t forget to write your legislators about EARN IT”, we’d both find that a better system? ambiguities, caveats abound. i’m not literally saying that every policy issue ought be on the ballot, just that if the formal systems for fairly translating individual preference into policy were more capable, we wouldn’t feel any need to reach for informal methods like writing legislators or rejecting authority.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#443

Post by Riverheart »

treis wrote: post #250
Riverheart wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So 1984 style listening devices and cameras in every home is the obvious solution right? Houses are where a lot of abuse happens. Scanning doesn’t even stop abuse from happening, just the possession and distribution of it.

Thank you for illustrating my point about the poisoned well. Say "Don't participate in crimes" and it gets morphed into 1984.

Most people aren’t doing crimes. Roads are used to traffic drugs but we don’t hold the state accountable nor do we setup checkpoints within country to inspect cars for illegal material because some % of cars do.

If your point is that privacy advocates aren’t considering the negative aspects of technology I’m sure they have but see these efforts as a reach towards more state surveillance.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#444

Post by maxwell »

jiggawatts wrote: post #419
BizarroLand wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"IT PROTECTS THE CHILDREN!" they'll scream, while using it to take more power away from society and concentrate it into their own hands. Surveillance isn't some harmless thing, because you can tell a million lies with a drop of the truth in them for any reason you want. Imagine you get established in life and decide to run for local politics only to have the fact that you've gone to Vegas 4 times in your life somehow…

Ah yes, “protecting the children”. Meanwhile, some of the most paranoid IT data security I’ve seen was at a department of education. You see, just statistically speaking , they have pedophiles on staff, staff with potential data access. They have ex husbands that want to abduct their kid after the messy divorce where the wife had to get a new identity, but good luck fleeing from your husband who has DB access at the…

We keep a gun behind every blade of grass for a reason.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#445

Post by jimmydorry »

kelnos wrote: post #432
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "why do you have the right to know?" is a decent answer. "What level of trust do you think you've earned?" "What do you want to do with all this information?" "How will this make things better?' "Don't you have more important things to spend time and money on?" "Is this really the best thing the government should be working on right now?" "How does this help any of society's ills?" "Will taxes need to be incr…

I also think a decent strategy is to start asking for all sorts of specific private information, like their social security number, bank account numbers, and passwords. Ask them to make a copy of their keys so you can enter their house any time you want and watch what they're doing, go through their things, etc. Tell them that you want to put up cameras in their bedroom and bathroom that stream to the internet 24/7.…

If you are asking what a reasonable person of the public thinks about digital privacy, that ship has already sailed. We have people installing and handing out their data to third parties in the form of:

* Cameras on their front doors (Ring doorbells, etc.) * Mics all around their house (Alexa's and other digital assistants) * 3D accurate maps out the entirety of your house's floor plan (Roomba's etc.) * Digital door locks managed in the cloud * Real-time position tracking (airtags, Google Maps app & equivalents, etc.)

We already have concrete evidence of some of the above being used / abused against the interest of the owner.

Until you can make a compelling case about why this is bad, I would wager that the default stance of the public is that no privacy is required.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#446

Post by jimmydorry »

shkkmo wrote: post #392
u801e wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't they usually store a hash of it? Any bank that restricts which characters one can include in a password probably doesn't store a hash of it.

This is completely false. You validate any password requirements before salting and hashing the password and then store the salt and hash. Even if you restrict usage of previous passwords, you are just comparing hashes.

Except you are giving them the password and trusting them to discard it after validating it. If it's purely client side, then the bank is trusting you to follow the password requirements which is also out of the question.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#448

Post by Heston »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #7

A reminder that "you have nothing to hide" argument is a fallacy because people abuse their power: Some first hits as reminders of places where their powers are abused [1]: "NSA staff used spy tools on spouses, ex-lovers: watchdog" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-surveillance-watchdog... [2]: https://reason.com/2022/07/26/police-can-access-your-ring-ca... [3]: https://reason.com/2021/04/26/warrantless-border-s…

What a ridiculous argument. That's like saying the police shouldnt have weapons to defend themselves with because there's a history of police killing innocent people.

No, the real answer here is to address the actual corruption to expose and remove it.

Not to mention, if you have nothing to hide, how can someone abuse their power to use it against you?

These bills are put in place because they save lives, especially vulnerable children.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#449

Post by Etrnl_President »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #314
maerF0x0 wrote: post #7

A reminder that "you have nothing to hide" argument is a fallacy because people abuse their power: Some first hits as reminders of places where their powers are abused [1]: "NSA staff used spy tools on spouses, ex-lovers: watchdog" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-surveillance-watchdog... [2]: https://reason.com/2022/07/26/police-can-access-your-ring-ca... [3]: https://reason.com/2021/04/26/warrantless-border-s…

I think "why do you have the right to know?" is a decent answer. "What level of trust do you think you've earned?" "What do you want to do with all this information?" "How will this make things better?' "Don't you have more important things to spend time and money on?" "Is this really the best thing the government should be working on right now?" "How does this help any of society's ills?" "Will taxes need to be incr…

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