I recall a lot of hype more than a decade ago about all the textures going away and being replaced with math formulas to generate everything on the fly. Games were supposed to get dramatically smaller. What ever happened to that?
> all the textures going away and being replaced with math formulas to generate everything on the fly. Anyone who thought this was incredibly naive. I look around my room and try to think about what textures could be generated procedurally. My walls, carpet, and ceiling? Yeah, sure. The stickers on my computer? No way.
Faster LZ is not the answer to 150-250 GB video game downloads
241–250 of 267 posts
Re: Faster LZ is not the answer to 150-250 GB video game downloads
#242Meanwhile, over in metaverse land, there are petabytes of content in the big worlds. I've been working on a faster Second Life / Open Simulator client. Those have a reputation for being sluggish. That's rapidly changing. All content is loaded on demand. Textures are stored in JPEG 2000 format. JPEG 2000 decoders come in several flavors - slow and flaky, fast but need the GPU, and midrange but expensive. If you want t…
Re: Faster LZ is not the answer to 150-250 GB video game downloads
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your experience is not my experience at all. Blizzard is the gold standard for me in starting games faster than any other launcher. In fact they are the only one I’ve seen that lets you play the game part way into the download. No other dev seems to have this technology. I waited hours to play Witcher 3, Cuberpunk, Assassins Creed Odyssey. With WoW I was playing within minutes.
Other games have 'start with partial download' technology. In fact, the core tech of the team that eventually created Valve's Steam was downloading assets on-the-fly so that you could start playing a game before everything was downloaded. I worked on Guild Wars 2, which has this feature. I made a first prototype of it that streamed all content on-the-fly. It's pretty easy to implement - you have an abstraction that a…
Re: Faster LZ is not the answer to 150-250 GB video game downloads
#244Re: Faster LZ is not the answer to 150-250 GB video game downloads
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This feels wrong. In that, I'd be surprised if they are not using compression. Check this out, you can sort by the number of submissions to filter out indie games https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14CVXd6PTIYE9XlNpRsxJ... from https://github.com/IridiumIO/CompactGUI
Thinking more on it, I am not too shocked that they would use uncompressed assets "at rest" on the machine. This is especially true for games mailed out on disks or cartridges. I'm still a little surprised, so the links are neat to read on. I am kind of curious on why they wouldn't use compression in transport, as it were. I'm still mostly assuming that they do.
Re: Faster LZ is not the answer to 150-250 GB video game downloads
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
I realize they’re trying to optimize for a wide base, but I have plenty of spare cores to decompress audio, and SSD space is limited. For me, the net result is that Titanfall was one of the first games to go when I needed space. Low hanging fruit. Even if it was deliberate, I have to question the logic and wonder how much usage they enabled vs. uninstalls from file size over time.
You've already bought it, so the game studio got their money, despite having a "bloated" install. So the incentives aren't quite there to reduce the size. I was thinking about buying Mass Effect yesterday, the recent update, but it requires 150GB and I don't have a Windows partition that big! (I'm Dual booting Linux) So I think money is being lost in people who aren't often gamers and haven't bought big disks for gam…
They may have some of my money, but not much (discount!), and they’re not getting money for DLCs, arguably the reason the base game was so cheap, and I’m not in a rush to buy more stuff that I can’t fit on my PC.
Prior to the era of the initial game purchase being just the entry point I’d have agreed with you, but many modern games have monetization strategies that make uninstallation a problem.
And if they have a strong enough incentive to care about CPU usage, they’re clearly putting effort into optimizing for some audience.
Re: Faster LZ is not the answer to 150-250 GB video game downloads
#247Re: Faster LZ is not the answer to 150-250 GB video game downloads
#248Games want to be more photorealistic and the hardware to fake it is getting faster and cheaper. I remember in 2008 when Intel demoed ray tracing[0] for Quake Wars. It ran on a quad-socket (4 CPUs x 2.7GHz) at around 25 FPS, and even Intel admitted that ray tracing is just "brute forcing" the complex optical physics of a scene. Considering between then and now, we have much prettier looking games that do NOT require r…
Unreal Engine 5 has a new lighting system called "Lumen". It seems to be visually almost on the level of normal brute force ray tracing, while not requiring any special ray traycing hardware and still running with decent performance on mid range hardware. It's a smarter approach which tries to accumulate lighting information on textures over time instead of computing everything again for each frame.
Re: Faster LZ is not the answer to 150-250 GB video game downloads
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
>immediately have to caveat Yeah, I could've indicated better that I'm talking about on-disk compression of files. >Sony included dedicated compression support in the PS5, licensed from a leading middleware company, specifically to make it easier to use compression in games. Games are using it. Not really if we look at 3rd party games. Jedi Survivor is likely not using that since it takes 147 gigs on PS5 and only 139…
> Fortnite doesn't use it(despite Epic's acquisition of RAD), You're talking nonsense. I worked on Fortnite and have direct experience with it and the HW decompression on PS5. I can even point you to the patch [0] where Fortnite enabled oodle compression and shrunk the game by 60GB. [0] https://twitter.com/FortniteStatus/status/131867784125345382...
Re: Faster LZ is not the answer to 150-250 GB video game downloads
#250Games want to be more photorealistic and the hardware to fake it is getting faster and cheaper. I remember in 2008 when Intel demoed ray tracing[0] for Quake Wars. It ran on a quad-socket (4 CPUs x 2.7GHz) at around 25 FPS, and even Intel admitted that ray tracing is just "brute forcing" the complex optical physics of a scene. Considering between then and now, we have much prettier looking games that do NOT require r…
Despite being a graphics researcher, I’ve been a little skeptical in the past about ray tracing in games. Recently I’ve started hearing for the first time from some hard-core gamers that turning on ray tracing makes a “massive” difference in the quality of the experience, and that they’ll use it as long as the frame rate can stay above 30 fps most of the time.
That said, with all due respect, your speculation about clever non-ray tracing techniques seems a little off-target from my perspective. There has been, and still is, a huge amount of research into these, and the entire field of techniques is hitting limits and failing to progress as fast as ray tracing. There are multiple reasons for this. One problem is that many of these one-off raster effects require their own memory & compute. Another is that they each require their own implementation, each require their own tuning, they impose constraints on the art and the artists, and they only work in narrow ranges of curated input. Shadow maps are a good example - needs a buffer of it’s own, and get too close or too far away from the shadows, or if the scene is too big, and they look terrible. You have to spend precious art+dev time just to make them work, you have to spend precious memory for this one effect, it eats into your rendering budget, it only takes care of the shadows, it’s quality has a hard ceiling limit, and you still have 13 other effects to work on that have the same story. With ray tracing, once you setup the memory for it, it can render all the effects at the same time, it’s the unified theory of rendering, and doesn’t require per-effect memory or much per-effect tuning, not like the grab bag of raster and screen-space effects does. Ray tracing has it’s downsides, and it’s certainly cycle-hungry, but there is a good reason that game devs are gravitating toward using ray tracing, it’s because ray tracing is fundamentally easier and fundamentally looks better than the one-off raster effects.
Regarding ray tracing being ‘brute force’, keep in mind that if you’re rendering many instances, or have lots more geometry than pixels visible to the camera, ray tracing can be more efficient than raster. Is usually isn’t in today’s games, because games have hard budgets that limit the amount of geometry - mostly due to raster algorithms! - but the trend of increasing geometric complexity is clear, and that ray tracing is the likely path forward. Nanite is very interesting and has made waves - it’s being adopted and used for the same reason that use of ray tracing is growing, primarily because it makes game development easier. Maybe we’ll see these two things merge in the future, they are not mutually exclusive. Nanite is carefully designed to make sure you’re always rendering polygons that are about 1 pixel in size, plus or minus, and Nanite has pushed scene complexity, but there are certainly open questions about whether this approach will continue to work as complexity grows.