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Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

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Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#151

Post by tap-snap-or-nap »

Gareth321 wrote: post #145
Eduard wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You have a faulty premise. Most meat and dairy is healthy, if consumed in reasonable quantities. The exception is chargrilled red meat, which is correlated with colon cancer. There is evidence that vegan diets are dangerous for children. This study ( https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/113/6/1565/6178918?log... ), for example, found that vegan children were shorter and had lower bone density. Typical vegan diets la…

> There is evidence that vegan diets are dangerous for children

That is not "evidence that vegan diets are dangerous for children".

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#152

Post by _0w8t »

Amezarak wrote: post #107
Eduard wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The evidence I've seen seems to indicate that meat and dairy are the healthy alternative. They also have centuries of safety data, unlike many (most?) vegan alternatives, which rely heavily on such things as canola oil and have to be engineered. I doubt you'll agree, and I'm sure you'll be able to pull out some studies suggesting otherwise, but perhaps we can agree we shouldn't be making policy decisions that shift t…

Meat and dairy from modern factory farms that feed animals with grain is very different from farms from, say, 19th century, when cows was feed mostly grass without antibiotics and were spending a lot of time outside.

So the reasons for safety do not apply.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#153

Post by AlecSchueler »

diego_moita wrote: post #128
AlecSchueler wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jealous that you get a choice. Netherlands here which is actually better for vegan options as a whole than the UK in my experience but never found a corner shop With anything but cow dairy.

> With anything but cow dairy. The Dutch love their cows? Who would have imagined that? :D /s

Other than the corner shops it's the most vegan friendly place I've seen in Europe. The farmers and their supporters aren't the whole population.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#154

Post by Gareth321 »

tap-snap-or-nap wrote: post #151
Gareth321 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a faulty premise. Most meat and dairy is healthy, if consumed in reasonable quantities. The exception is chargrilled red meat, which is correlated with colon cancer. There is evidence that vegan diets are dangerous for children. This study ( https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/113/6/1565/6178918?log... ), for example, found that vegan children were shorter and had lower bone density. Typical vegan diets la…

> There is evidence that vegan diets are dangerous for children That is not "evidence that vegan diets are dangerous for children".

Lower stature and bone density is evidence of dangerous malnutrition. Those with lower bone density in particular are at far higher risk of osteoporosis. I'm not sure how you could claim that isn't evidence of potential danger.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#155

Post by shafyy »

Gareth321 wrote: post #145
Eduard wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You have a faulty premise. Most meat and dairy is healthy, if consumed in reasonable quantities. The exception is chargrilled red meat, which is correlated with colon cancer. There is evidence that vegan diets are dangerous for children. This study ( https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/113/6/1565/6178918?log... ), for example, found that vegan children were shorter and had lower bone density. Typical vegan diets la…

The only things lacking in a plant-based diet that is essential are vitamin B12 and D. B12 is also lacking in animal-based diets nowadays, but is supplemented in animal feed. D is also lacking in animal-based diet, so this is not specific to plant-based diets.

Vitamins A, B6, F can be found in many plant-based foods. The rest of the stuff you listed are not essential for human health.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#156

Post by mkoubaa »

hexis wrote: post #139
CalRobert wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good points until you showed obvious bias with the "fake food" comment.

Dismissing a point due to bias is an example of the ad hominem fallacy.

No it's not

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#157

Post by throwaway290 »

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #132
throwaway290 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somebody not eating animal products for ethical reasons will not buy anything from Nestle given a choice, for very same reasons. And yes, we who avoid Nestle pay more for alternatives, but if you know their business practices there's no moral choice.

I respectfully disagree. As much as I would like to avoid the kinds of Nestle, it's just impossible in practice for many of us. Instead, I try to find comfort in the fact that animal replacements are becoming cheap and common because of the mega corporations.

> As much as I would like to avoid the kinds of Nestle, it's just impossible in practice for many of us

Why?

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#159

Post by kitkat_new »

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #132
throwaway290 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somebody not eating animal products for ethical reasons will not buy anything from Nestle given a choice, for very same reasons. And yes, we who avoid Nestle pay more for alternatives, but if you know their business practices there's no moral choice.

I respectfully disagree. As much as I would like to avoid the kinds of Nestle, it's just impossible in practice for many of us. Instead, I try to find comfort in the fact that animal replacements are becoming cheap and common because of the mega corporations.

> As much as I would like to avoid the kinds of Nestle, it's just impossible in practice for many of us.

how so?

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#160

Post by Eduard »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #138
Eduard wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Healthy alternatives like instant ramen? If a significant nuber of people can't afford meat any more, that's not a tiny difference in purchasing power (that can be mitigated by some fewer luxuries), but they basically became "very poor" now, and poor people will choose calorie rich food, which mostly isn't healthy at all.. just compare price per calorie for pasta/rice/(ramen)... vs peppers, broccoli, eggplant, etc.

> Healthy alternatives like instant ramen?

No, healthy alternatives like healthy alternatives. E.g. google "cheap healthy food" (notice I even haven't added a "vegan" query constraint).

And your "poor people will choose calorie rich food" is an argument - for what? That animal-based food is low-calorie or high-calorie, and people will only substitute it with unheathly stuff? Keep in mind that people have been going to "unhealthy" McDonald's for ages.

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