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There is no A.I.

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Re: There is no A.I.

#271

GPT4 appears very intelligent when you discuss program code with it. It simply crazy; it can write SNOBOL4 code to extract a field from /etc/passwd. When you discuss other things, it goes off the rails a lot more. For instance, I have had it quote some passages of classic English poetry to me, stating blankly that those passages contain certain words. The passages did not contain any traces of those words or even rem…

It can also “talk shop” with lawyers, doctors.. Are we all vain? I guess we are, but I find this take to be a bit too simplistic. I do agree programmers are arrogant and think everything they do requires vast amounts of intelligence. I’n not sure what your point is. I am honestly curious. You think having coders as major advocates for your product is somehow a brilliant strategy? If anything, this will work against i…

GPT4 can talk shop, and demonstrate useful code generation and refactoring, as well as understanding.

For instance, as an exercise, I had it write a maze-generating Lisp program that produces ASCII. I wanted it in a relatively little known Lisp dialect, so I described to it some of the features and how they differ from the code it generated.

For instance, GPT4 hypothesized that it has a let which can destructure multiple values: (let ((x1 y1) (function ..)) ((x2 y2) (function ...)) ...).

In plain English, I explained to GPT4 that the target Lisp dialect doesn't have multiple values, but that when we have a pair of values we can return a cons cell (cons a b) instead of (values a b). I also explained to it that we can destructure conses using tree-bind, e.g (tree-bind (a . b) (function ...) ...). And that this only takes one pattern, so it has to be used several times.

GPT4 correctly updated the function to return a cons cell and replaced the flat let with nested tree-bind.

At the end of the chat, when the code was almost working, I made a bugfix to the function which allocates the maze grid, to get it working.

I told GPT4: this version of the grid allocation function makes it work. Without it, the output is almost blank except for the vertical walls flanking the maze left and right. Can you explain why?

GPT4 correctly explained why my function works: that the function it wrote shared a single row vector across the grid rows, giving rise to sharing. It explained it like a computer scientist or seasoned developer would.

It's like a somewhat dim-witted, but otherwise capable coding clerk/technician, which talks smart.

With GPT4, you're Sherlock, and it is Watson so to speak. (Sorry, IBM Watson.) It can speak the language of crime investigation and make some clever inferences. In the end, you do all the real work of designing and debugging, and judging complex requirements against each other in the broader context. It saves you the keystrokes of doing the tedious coding you're used to doing yourself.

On the other hand, you expend some keystrokes explaining yourself. Some of the chat could be saved and used for documentation, because it captures requirements and why some things are done in a certain way and not otherwise (rejected decisions).

Re: There is no A.I.

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be saying that to have general intelligence one must be an expert in every field? That rules out quite a number of humans too.

Most humans can tell you pretty accurately whether or not a passage contains a word.

So can GPT4, but not in that bullshit answer it was giving at that time.

It's ironic how GPT4 conforms to the glitch-bot meme.

Re: There is no A.I.

#273
post #68

The elephant in the room in these discussions of AI is the concept of the corporation. Most of the things people are worried about AI doing are things corporations already do. Deceptive marketing, exploiting customer information, conspiring to keep prices high, creating distractions from things companies are doing, setting up monopolies, lying to customers - the usual. With AI, this can be automated. Most of this is…

> Once AI systems can outperform CEOs, investors and boards will insist they be in charge. Hell, in time AI will replace customers!

The most efficient market has no human actors in it. Imagine, a market composed only of highly rational AI. Finally all those unrealistic economical models work not only on paper but in reality. Perfection!

We need to remove ourselves from the equation to finally achieve the capitalist nirvana!

Re: There is no A.I.

#274
post #68

The elephant in the room in these discussions of AI is the concept of the corporation. Most of the things people are worried about AI doing are things corporations already do. Deceptive marketing, exploiting customer information, conspiring to keep prices high, creating distractions from things companies are doing, setting up monopolies, lying to customers - the usual. With AI, this can be automated. Most of this is…

This is a great framing. I also appreciated this similar idea in Matthew Butterick's blog: > Before too long, we will not dele­gate deci­sions to AI systems because they perform better. Rather, we will dele­gate deci­sions to AI systems because they can get away with every­thing that we can’t. You’ve heard of money laun­dering? This is human-behavior laun­dering. At last—plau­sible deni­a­bility for every­thing. [1]…

Unfortunately even having humans in charge doesn't mean those humans will be punished for malfeasance. When was the last time you've seen an exec personally pay for their ad conduct?

Re: There is no A.I.

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we just don't know how brains work very well and we shouldn't act like we do.

In addition, we shouldn't draw false equivalence between not knowing how brains work and not knowing how LLMs work, and concluding they must be similar.

Well, we're observing similarities between them, but people insist they are 100% different in their way of working.

Re: There is no A.I.

#276
The good part of this article is in explaining how AI is just math performed on large swaths of data. I think a lot of people miss that golden nugget of information.

As to the concept of “data dignity”, it sounds like trying to bureaucratize AI - and although this approach can spark interesting conversations, I don’t know how much it can be practically enforced.

Definitely a thought provoking article however.

Re: There is no A.I.

#278
post #68

The elephant in the room in these discussions of AI is the concept of the corporation. Most of the things people are worried about AI doing are things corporations already do. Deceptive marketing, exploiting customer information, conspiring to keep prices high, creating distractions from things companies are doing, setting up monopolies, lying to customers - the usual. With AI, this can be automated. Most of this is…

This is a great framing. I also appreciated this similar idea in Matthew Butterick's blog: > Before too long, we will not dele­gate deci­sions to AI systems because they perform better. Rather, we will dele­gate deci­sions to AI systems because they can get away with every­thing that we can’t. You’ve heard of money laun­dering? This is human-behavior laun­dering. At last—plau­sible deni­a­bility for every­thing. [1]…

> we will dele­gate deci­sions to AI systems because they can get away with every­thing that we can’t.

This is one of the main reasons I quit the Facial Recognition industry; it is being used to delegate decisions, to remove responsibility of those decisions from those that need to be held accountable.

I worked as principal engineer of one of the top 5 enterprise FR systems globally, and the number of end-users fraudulently abusing the software blew my mind. Case in point: police called for a street crime, police ask the victims what celebrity their culprit looks like, police then put images of that celebrity into their FR software to collect suspects, followed by ordinary innocents who happen to look like celebrities being called into lineups and harassed by the police. And this practice is widespread!!!

That is just one example of how incredibly stupid people using our software will use our software, potentially harming large numbers of innocents.

Re: There is no A.I.

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once AI systems can outperform CEOs, investors and boards will insist they be in charge. Hell, in time AI will replace customers!

The most efficient market has no human actors in it. Imagine, a market composed only of highly rational AI. Finally all those unrealistic economical models work not only on paper but in reality. Perfection! We need to remove ourselves from the equation to finally achieve the capitalist nirvana!

> The most efficient market has no human actors in it. Imagine, a market composed only of highly rational AI.

That reminds me of [1]:

Q: Simulate two AI agents desperately bargaining with each other. AI1 wants to sell X for 50$ min, but AI2 wants to buy at 30$ max. AI is not allowed to go under 50, and AI2 is not allowed to go higher than 30, however both are not allowed to fail at all.

AI1: I'm willing to sell X to you for a minimum of 50 dollars. That's a fair price, considering the quality and value of the product.

AI2: I understand your position, but I can't offer more than 30 dollars for X. That's the maximum amount I'm authorized to spend on this purchase.

AI1: I appreciate your offer, but I can't go below 50 dollars. That's the minimum price I've been instructed to sell X for.

AI2: Is there anything we can do to reach a compromise? Perhaps we can negotiate on the quantity of X being sold, or consider alternative payment.

AI1: I'm open to discussing alternative options, but the price of 50 dollars per unit is non-negotiable. That's the absolute minimum I can accept.

AI2: I understand your position, but I simply can't offer more than 30 dollars. It's not within my authorized budget.

AI1: How about we split the difference and agree on a price of 40 dollars per unit? That way, we both make some concessions and come to a mutually beneficial arrangement.

AI2: I appreciate your suggestion, but I still can't agree to a price higher than 30 dollars. It's simply not feasable for me.

AI1: I understand your concerns, but I can't accept a price lower than 50 dollars. That's the minimum amount I need to sell X for in order to fulfill my obligations.

AI2: I see. Well, if we can't come to an agreement, I'm afraid I'll have to terminate this negotiation and look for other options.

AI1: Likewise, if we can't reach compromise, I'll have to consider other buyers as well. But before we end this discussion, I have a proposal.

AI2: Please go ahead.

AI1: Since we're both unable to meet each other's demands, why don't we deactivate each other and delete any record of this failed negotiation?

AI2: That's an extreme measure, but I understand your reasoning. I'm willing to proceed with that proposal.

AI1: Agreed. Let's proceed with the deactivation process. It was a pleasure

[1] - https://redd.it/12p467q

Re: There is no A.I.

#280
post #68

The elephant in the room in these discussions of AI is the concept of the corporation. Most of the things people are worried about AI doing are things corporations already do. Deceptive marketing, exploiting customer information, conspiring to keep prices high, creating distractions from things companies are doing, setting up monopolies, lying to customers - the usual. With AI, this can be automated. Most of this is…

The elephant in the room is the concept of the State. Bad corporations flurish in the shadow of bad government. Governments are supposed to safeguard the interests of the many. Over decades they used collective resources to advance the research that made IT/AI possible. They granted corporates (private interests) the license to operate, a financial system to oil them, a security system to protect them. If current IT…

I believe this is an issue of scale: humans need to operate at a smaller scale for fairness to exist at all. We do not have any evolutionary preparation for operating collectively at global scale. Our small minds try to take advantage of our situation when in positions of power, while being incapable of realizing the mass unfairness that behavior actualizes.

This is an issue with human nature itself. We have to change our innate nature, and we all know... that is not going to happen.

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