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PHP Popularity: Is it decreasing and what to do about it?

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Re: PHP Popularity: Is it decreasing and what to do about it?

#91

Post by ihatepython »

DonHopkins wrote: post #41
themodelplumber wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the JS equivalent of "place an index.php file in a folder to deploy"? What's the JS FOSS equivalent of ProcessWire as a CMF + CMS? What's the JS equivalent to e.g. DreamHost and other drag + drop hosts? (Legitimately curious, and I'm mainly inquiring after equivalents-for...better-thans would definitely be interesting)

What is the PHP equivalent of writing your front end and back end in the same language so you can share libraries and data and not have to switch gears between two different languages each time you look up or down the stack? There is a HUGE advantage to using the same language in the browser and on the server, and PHP isn't ever going to displace JavaScript in the browser. So JavaScript it is. That ship sailed a LONG…

> What is the PHP equivalent of writing your front end and back end in the same language so you can share libraries and data and not have to switch gears between two different languages each time you look up or down the stack?

You can simply compile your PHP code to wasm with emscripten, and then run it in the browser. Pretty straightforward. No more switching gears.

Re: PHP Popularity: Is it decreasing and what to do about it?

#92

Post by ihatepython »

9dev wrote: post #31
123sereusername wrote: post #6

Celebrate!

So, what’s your alternative? Python with its god-awful package management situation? Node with its „here’s a bazillion libraries for the same thing, good luck figuring out how to combine them“? Ruby with its 90ies-grade performance?

My dream is to be able to write everything in CSS. That would be my language of choice.

Re: PHP Popularity: Is it decreasing and what to do about it?

#93

Post by jhoelzel »

Having converted a couple of PHP projects to modern languages and maintained way more than i care to admit:

Its not going anywhere. Or at least in europe its not.

Symfony et al have matured enough so they are usuable for allmost everything web related and if you dont plan to be the next google homepage, it will carry you VERY far.

Is it pretty? No. Is it efficient? No. But you will be able to find 10 coders for the price of 4, that will have your project iterate until you need something bigger and better. If you do not hate your staff, by then they can easily pick up golang and convert into microservices, taking it down piece by piece and making the parts more efficient that need it.

Re: PHP Popularity: Is it decreasing and what to do about it?

#94

Post by asdfman123 »

edsrzf wrote: post #50

The world that PHP grew up in has changed. The language and community have matured, and in the process PHP has lost most of its competitive advantage: low barrier to entry. It used to be: * Moving from static HTML to dynamic server code was a matter of changing file extension and adding PHP tags. * Many shared hosting services supported PHP. * Deploying was a matter of copying files to the server. Projects that start…

They’re solving problems for people who are stuck using PHP, not trying to find a market niche.

Re: PHP Popularity: Is it decreasing and what to do about it?

#96

Post by asdfman123 »

archerx wrote: post #82
entropicgravity wrote: post #74

Mother Mary came to me speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

I like that PHP is not popular and looked down upon by the masses. There is so much less drama in the communities, there isn't a new resume driven framework made every other week, no one is try to spike extensions with malware, no real build system, so much less bullshit. Its like everyone one who uses PHP is to busy making stuff to be stirring drama online while the PHP core has been steadily getting better for the…

I used to think like you did, and in my case all of that sort of reasoning was based at some level on fear of success.

I settled for writing frumpy code at frumpy companies for years, but my life got better when I tried to chase after things a little more.

Re: PHP Popularity: Is it decreasing and what to do about it?

#97

Post by asdfman123 »

edmundsauto wrote: post #70
themodelplumber wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the JS equivalent of "place an index.php file in a folder to deploy"? What's the JS FOSS equivalent of ProcessWire as a CMF + CMS? What's the JS equivalent to e.g. DreamHost and other drag + drop hosts? (Legitimately curious, and I'm mainly inquiring after equivalents-for...better-thans would definitely be interesting)

I have a hobby app that is index.html and I just manually add tags to load libraries. No build step, I just use GitHub to cloudFlare pages to host.

It’s funny that it reads like some novel approach, but a script tag within an html page is what JavaScript is and was designed to be.

Re: PHP Popularity: Is it decreasing and what to do about it?

#98

Post by pjmlp »

jhoelzel wrote: post #93

Having converted a couple of PHP projects to modern languages and maintained way more than i care to admit: Its not going anywhere. Or at least in europe its not. Symfony et al have matured enough so they are usuable for allmost everything web related and if you dont plan to be the next google homepage, it will carry you VERY far. Is it pretty? No. Is it efficient? No. But you will be able to find 10 coders for the p…

I can confirm, most European ISP keep only offering PHP and Perl on their cheapest hosting price plans, PHP is here to stay.

Re: PHP Popularity: Is it decreasing and what to do about it?

#99

Post by pjmlp »

DonHopkins wrote: post #41
themodelplumber wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the JS equivalent of "place an index.php file in a folder to deploy"? What's the JS FOSS equivalent of ProcessWire as a CMF + CMS? What's the JS equivalent to e.g. DreamHost and other drag + drop hosts? (Legitimately curious, and I'm mainly inquiring after equivalents-for...better-thans would definitely be interesting)

What is the PHP equivalent of writing your front end and back end in the same language so you can share libraries and data and not have to switch gears between two different languages each time you look up or down the stack? There is a HUGE advantage to using the same language in the browser and on the server, and PHP isn't ever going to displace JavaScript in the browser. So JavaScript it is. That ship sailed a LONG…

As long time Java, .NET and C++ developer, this is oversold, beyond some form validation there is hardly any value sharing code.

And in what concerns validation, it can be automated on most frameworks, which has to be done on server side anyway due to security concerns.

Re: PHP Popularity: Is it decreasing and what to do about it?

#100

Post by ihatepython »

DonHopkins wrote: post #29

> Without steps like the big improvements in PHP 7 and laravel, PHP could potentially already be irrelevant today. So what? What's wrong with PHP becoming irrelevant? Surely nobody would complain that ColdFusion is finally irrelevant. People should focus their time and energy on better solutions than PHP or ColdFusion.

> People should focus their time and energy on better solutions than PHP or ColdFusion.

Yes they should, but none of the 'solutions' are actually much better. We should all just accept the cold, hard reality that the web was a huge mistake and never should have been created. Nothing good has come from the web. Personally I was much happier with usenet, ftp, and gopher.

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