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CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

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Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#791

Post by adrianN »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #291
cultureswitch wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The timelines for ICE bans within a decade are ridiculous from a technology and market standpoint and terrible for the environment. The best car technology is the one you don't use much. And we already have decades of cars in good enough condition to be driven weekly rather than daily. EVs will barely scratch the surface of environmental issues with transportation. And they will create a new range of supply problems…

It's particular ironic in China, where >50% of their domestic energy production is apparently from coal. That being said, it could improve metro air quality a large degree because I'm guessing coal power plants aren't built in downtown Beijing.

China's CO2 intensity is about 550g/kWh currently (and falling rapidly). An EV takes about 15kWh/100km. That's less than 90g/km. About as much as a Prius.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#792

Post by adrianN »

zirgs wrote: post #313
rob74 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! I mean, we saw the same with computing: the first PCs cost thousands of dollars, but by the start of the nineties they were much more affordable already. Mostly because of technology advances and mass production, but of course also because of moving chip/board production to cheaper countries. Same with mobile phones, smartphones, laptops etc. etc.

PCs still cost thousands of dollars. If you are interested in AI/machine learning then $2k is the bare minimum.

My PC cost about 400€ and I'm a professional user. Most people are fine with the capabilities of a Raspberry Pi.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#793

Post by adrianN »

Glawen wrote: post #146
mpreda wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I on the other hand, I applaud the politicians who had the guts to push the ICE car sales ban against the push-back of the established cars manufacturers. ICE cars are such a nuisance in cities by polluting the air. I look forward to a time when my children will be able to enjoy clean air in the cities.

I call this egoism. Modern ecologism just aims to make a nice walled garden around their voters, they don't care what is happening outside this garden. In the reality, other parts of the country/earth is getting polluted to produce the goods. I much prefer the older ways with polluting factory in the city, at least everyone could see what it takes to provide each good, and share its cost. The current way of doing thi…

Producing an ICE is also polluting. Producing gasoline is also polluting. This is not an argument against banning ICEs.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#794

Post by tarunmuvvala »

gibolt wrote: post #24
bagels wrote: post #2

"CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg which it says will go into mass production this year" This is a lot more credible than most of the battery stories, because CATL is already producing a ton of batteries, lending them some credibility. This is a little under 2x the density of current batteries.

Current mass produced batteries, which tend to hover around 260-300 Wh/kg. Higher density (but still under 500) are available, but in far smaller quantities for a very high cost. The exciting part of this announcement is that if anyone can scale manufacturing, it is them.

The real question is, will this lead to reduction in cost?

If yes, I hope they open-source it so that the fight against global warming can gain some momentum across the globe.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#795

Post by theK »

lelanthran wrote: post #787
giobox wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes future regulations will allow you to do this. There are already examples of commercial fuels today that sell fuel only to commercial customers at a different rate. See "red diesel" in the UK - its just plain ole diesel taxed differently for commercial use, but illegal for use in privately owned personal vehicles. It's dyed red to allow its use in private vehicles to be discovered from the discoloration o…

> See "red diesel" in the UK - its just plain ole diesel taxed differently for commercial use, but illegal for use in privately owned personal vehicles. It's dyed red to allow its use in private vehicles to be discovered from the discoloration of engine parts etc. Maybe, but we're talking about the banning of ICE vehicles, not the banning of fuel. I mean, "you won't find fuel because it will be illegal to possess it"…

I don't think fossil fuels will ever get completely banned from private use. Think of all the old timer drivers.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#796

Post by perlgeek »

topper-123 wrote: post #109

Someone should do a followup on all the batteries break-troughs on the front page of HN over the last 5 years and count how many got into production. Still, an announcement from a big company like this is a lot more credible than from research labs or small start-ups, IMO.

The other day I heard a podcast interview ( https://www.theskepticsguide.org/podcasts/episode-927 ) with somebody from Amprius Technologies, they're also starting serial production of a 1000 kwh/kg battery.

Their main energy density boost is a silicone anode, which we've known "for ages" that it leads to higher energy density, but soaking it with lithium degrades the material very quickly, leading to cracks and thus damage after just a few charge cycles. The main innovation is some kind of nano-structuring of the anode, and that technique was published in the scientific literature in 2006.

I'm sure it was hyped as a battery break-through in 2006, and it has taken 17 years to get to market.

So, maybe we shouldn't go back 5 years, more like 20 years (OK, no HN back then :D).

Batteries do get better over time, fairly consistently so. The development lifecycle is just soooo much longer than in software.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#797

Post by perlgeek »

acyou wrote: post #689

For me, this signals CATL is either actually on the verge of a breakthrough, or desperate and in big trouble. If the technology is brand new, how can it have been thoroughly life and cycle tested already? I will believe the batteries are truly ready for prime-time after approx. 5 years of real world service. That's enough time to see the creeping, unforeseen issues that tend to crop up with batteries. Dendrite growth…

The actual breakthrough likely happened several years ago, maybe 10+ years ago, and is only now hitting mass production.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#798

Post by perlgeek »

semireg wrote: post #764

Like Amazon shopping, I come here for the 1-star reviews. Does it charge in cold? Will it catastrophically fail when punctured? Does it wear out over time? At this point only the negatives matter.

If it doesn't charged when cold, just heat it up for charging.

Some negatives can be mitigated.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#799

Post by jjav »

mpreda wrote: post #105
paganel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do have a choice because, on paper, we do have a choice in choosing those countries’ politicians. I know I’ll never give my vote to a politician keen on banning gasoline cars. It’s sadly also true that the technocrats actually taking those decisions are a lot less directly accountable, but nothing that a second “yellow vests” movement won’t be able to fix.

I on the other hand, I applaud the politicians who had the guts to push the ICE car sales ban against the push-back of the established cars manufacturers. ICE cars are such a nuisance in cities by polluting the air. I look forward to a time when my children will be able to enjoy clean air in the cities.

> I on the other hand, I applaud the politicians who had the guts to push the ICE car sales ban against the push-back

I can't agree, because forceful bans are not the best way to accomplish change.

Simply keep improving battery technology to bring prices down and range up and it'll take a natural course once buying an EV becomes cheaper than an ICE car. Implementing bans makes it political and builds resentment which is counterproductive. Building a better product and letting the market decide works so much better.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#800

Post by oblio »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #478
brianwawok wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare the mpge of different cars. Tesla tends to win even between EVs.

Engineering first results.

Engineering first? From the company with 1 inch gaps between panels? From the company that had no mechanical handles in the back, so if the electrical stuff stopped working (say, because the battery was on fire), passengers in the back had to finish a puzzle to find out how to get out of the car?
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