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Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

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Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#461

Post by locallost »

illiarian wrote: post #207
locallost wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get this bogus argument. Germany is using the least coal in its history for electricity. The data is very easy to find, but it's a knee jerk reaction that they got rid of nuclear and so they must've replaced it with coal. Not true at all, and it's getting tiring reading this nonsense.

They replaced it with coal, gas and biofuel (that is, burning more stuff): https://twitter.com/energybants/status/1647799729734971396

It's nonsense. Look at the production for the year for the last 10 years, not a snapshot of a nuclear lobbyist.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#462

Post by btreecat »

cyberax wrote: post #427
pfdietz wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the entries in that table (LTO) are for 20 year life extensiom of existing plants, not new plants.

And so what? Modern nuclear reactors are licensed for 60 years and are expected to last 80-100 years with maintenance (reactor vessel annealing, mainly). This is exactly a point in favor of nuclear.

So where's the "solar spills" or "wind contamination?"

One of these solutions is encumbered by problems of safety, the other capacity. It's easier to scale up capacity than it is to scale safety.

If I had to make long term bets, radioactive materials will continue to be radioactive, green capture, storage and transmission will get cheaper and more reliable.

Speaking of transmission, that's another huge problem. You can't go plopping powerplants just anywhere, and power generation needs to be somewhat close to those consuming it.

Distributed collection and storage helps reduce challenges around transmission infrastructure in low density or hard to travel areas.

Consider Puerto Rico, their investments in solar have skyrocketed, especially with the need to rebuild so much infrastructure. They had nuclear, and they were cleaning up contamination for decades after shutting it down. Also part of the issue with power there is transmission. You don't get the efficiency out of tiny boilers to make them cost effective for these folks.

I think you're pushing a bit hard for a tech that has a lot of problems and while it could play a role in our future, it's unlikely to be a dominant force.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#463

Post by Manuel_D »

Gwypaas wrote: post #455
Manuel_D wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be more specific, the tsunami caused by it. And without the massive 9.1 earthquake there would have been no tsunami. Flooding from rain or snowmelt is far more gradual.

There has been more near misses in the nuclear industry than tsunamis. After Fukushima about all plants in the west had to install independent core cooling because the regulators realized the risk was systemic, even though the cause was special in the case of Fukushima. A nuclear reactor in Sweden had a severe incident in 2006 when many of the "defense in depth" layers had been accidentally removed through freak occu…

And there are plenty of real disasters that were several times deadlier than Chernobyl, yet I doubt most readers have heard of them since they don't involve the term "nuclear"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Banqiao_Dam_failure

Nuclear is one of the safest form of electricity generation, even though plants built before 1980 account for most electricity production. Safety is not an issue with nuclear, when doing a good-faith comparison with other forms of energy production and the continued damage of climate change.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#464

Post by btreecat »

simonh wrote: post #453
pydry wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't realize it went as low as that. Some wind farms can hit 65% https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/worlds-first-fl...

True but with nuclear you can usually schedule the downtime well in advance. With wind it just stops whenever, whether you’re ready for it or not.

Funny enough, this is why you see wind farms where there is a decent prevailing wind.

The biggest issue is usually our lack of capacity to store/transmit. They shut of some turbines because they over produce for the Network capacity.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#465

Post by locallost »

cyberax wrote: post #335
otherme123 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By reliability he refers to french nuclear plants stopped for months due to mantainance and repairs (mainly leaks that couldn't be scheduled). Painting nuclear as a 100% free of problem energy makes people sound as car salesmans. As of today, nobody want to finance or insure them. As soon as you say "ok, build them reactors if they are so perfect", nuclear advocates want the state to jump in and asume the costs, the…

> By reliability he refers to french nuclear plants stopped for months due to mantainance and repairs (mainly leaks that couldn't be scheduled). That's not quite correct. France deferred maintenance during COVID and scheduled the downtime in advance. The inspections then found potential problems, so other reactors did additional maintenance and checks. They could have been deferred further if needed, but politicians…

It's been proven to work and the only able to displace fossil fuels, yet it's existed for 70 years and not even reduced the amount of fossil fuels used in electricity production. Renewables have been pushed for 20 years and have started to accelerate only 10 years ago, yet they are already displacing fossil fuels in many countries.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#466

Post by andruby »

andrewstuart wrote: post #315
andruby wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there is. Incandescent lights have been banned for years in most European countries to speed up the adoption of led-lighting. Street lights are being replaces by leds. Tax cuts and subsidies are given for energy efficient housing.

I knew someone would say "but light globes!". Yes of course all appliances are now energy rated etc. In some countries inefficient lightglobes are banned. But I'm not talking about that - I'm talking about systematic change in behaviour of homes and business to try to use less energy, perhaps encouraged through tax or other incentives.

What you describe seems exactly that to me. When building a new home and it’s energy neutral or very efficient, you get a large tax benefit. All home builders I know off take this into account.

Do you have an example or idea of what you are thinking about?

Plenty of homes are now switching to heat pumps and they’ve added solar in the last decade so more and more homes have become “energy-neutral” to a degree.

Add in electric vehicles and residential batteries and we should start seeing some families be self-sufficient

It’s probably too little and maybe too late, but there are plenty of changes

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#467

Post by Gwypaas »

Manuel_D wrote: post #463
Gwypaas wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has been more near misses in the nuclear industry than tsunamis. After Fukushima about all plants in the west had to install independent core cooling because the regulators realized the risk was systemic, even though the cause was special in the case of Fukushima. A nuclear reactor in Sweden had a severe incident in 2006 when many of the "defense in depth" layers had been accidentally removed through freak occu…

And there are plenty of real disasters that were several times deadlier than Chernobyl, yet I doubt most readers have heard of them since they don't involve the term "nuclear" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Banqiao_Dam_failure Nuclear is one of the safest form of electricity generation, even though plants built before 1980 account for most electricity production.…

Stop engaging in whataboutism and answer the point instead.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#468

Post by illiarian »

locallost wrote: post #461
illiarian wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They replaced it with coal, gas and biofuel (that is, burning more stuff): https://twitter.com/energybants/status/1647799729734971396

It's nonsense. Look at the production for the year for the last 10 years, not a snapshot of a nuclear lobbyist.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35660264

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#469

Post by illiarian »

AnonCoward42 wrote: post #276
tremon wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example of a power source that is resilient to politics? I struggle to imagine what that would even look like.

Coal power plants, wind turbines and mostly anything else. They can end up catastrophic in a sense, but not to the same degree nuclear fission plants can end up.

None of those are resilient to politics.

See for solar: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35661918

Same for everything else. Green Party in Britain is campaigning against literally everything including offshore wind: https://twitter.com/stuarthammond14/status/16486453145621217...

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#470

Post by locallost »

illiarian wrote: post #468
locallost wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's nonsense. Look at the production for the year for the last 10 years, not a snapshot of a nuclear lobbyist.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35660264

So it matters when wind is providing 20%, but it doesn't matter when it's providing 100%. Thus, even though coal use is at a historic low, it's actually increasing, and in other news water is dry and grass is red.
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