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There is no A.I.

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Re: There is no A.I.

#141

Post by cyber_kinetist »

Animats wrote: post #68

The elephant in the room in these discussions of AI is the concept of the corporation. Most of the things people are worried about AI doing are things corporations already do. Deceptive marketing, exploiting customer information, conspiring to keep prices high, creating distractions from things companies are doing, setting up monopolies, lying to customers - the usual. With AI, this can be automated. Most of this is…

Or even continuing the idea further, we might say that capitalism is itself already a form of highly sophisticated artificial intelligence that we’ve created, as a abstract autonomous entity with its only purpose being the accumulation of Capital. As a transnational entity it has no bounds and controls billions of human agents, and shapes the Earth to its will, changing ecosystems and climates. It is to be questioned if humans have lost control of this AI, and now controls the course of humanity itself.

Re: There is no A.I.

#142

Post by throwaway8503 »

ekianjo wrote: post #90
throwaway8503 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem seems to be with defining good tests for intelligence. FWIW, because GPT4 answers have a detectable pattern, they should presumably fail the Turing test. At some level, intelligence requires logic, rationality, and conceptualization, all of which are topics which have evaded clear definition despite millennia of philosophy directly addressing the issues.

Humans also answer in predictable ways so if you place such criteria for a turing test humans will fail to pass it too

I suppose it's a bit of a scotsman argument, but the turing test is to see whether an observer can correctly guess whether the interlocutor is _human_, so by definition the test would pass if the other correspondent was human.

To the point underneath, humans do not answer in as predictable a way as ChatGPT. Your answer, for example, I am confident does not come from ChatGPT.

Edit: if I've horribly mangled the Turing test definition, please let me know

Re: There is no A.I.

#143

Post by nyolfen »

dragonwriter wrote: post #140
tracerbulletx wrote: post #27

All of these arguments seem to think that the brain isn't also generating a statistical ordering of semantic words and actions. Obviously the brain has a way more complex network of subsystems with various specialties than the artificial models we have today and is able to generalize language, math, and positional reasoning and mix it with the older parts of the brain for reward and training mechanisms and it can do…

> All of these arguments seem to think that the brain isn’t also generating a statistical ordering of semantic words and actions. There may be a part of the brain that is modelled well by an LLM, but if so, there seem to also be parts that aren’t, or even existing “multimodal” models like GPT-4, which is more than an LLM. Humans, including their brains (both in the narrow sense and in the broader sense of “everything…

this is exactly what he said if you finish reading the comment

Re: There is no A.I.

#144

Post by nyolfen »

rootusrootus wrote: post #86
ethanbond wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we just don't know how brains work very well and we shouldn't act like we do.

In addition, we shouldn't draw false equivalence between not knowing how brains work and not knowing how LLMs work, and concluding they must be similar.

there are currently two things we are aware of in the universe that can reason abstractly. i don't think this is a coincidence.

Re: There is no A.I.

#145

Post by [deleted] »

cyber_kinetist wrote: post #141
Animats wrote: post #68

The elephant in the room in these discussions of AI is the concept of the corporation. Most of the things people are worried about AI doing are things corporations already do. Deceptive marketing, exploiting customer information, conspiring to keep prices high, creating distractions from things companies are doing, setting up monopolies, lying to customers - the usual. With AI, this can be automated. Most of this is…

Or even continuing the idea further, we might say that capitalism is itself already a form of highly sophisticated artificial intelligence that we’ve created, as a abstract autonomous entity with its only purpose being the accumulation of Capital. As a transnational entity it has no bounds and controls billions of human agents, and shapes the Earth to its will, changing ecosystems and climates. It is to be questioned…

[deleted]

Re: There is no A.I.

#146

Post by vimax »

jstummbillig wrote: post #120
tracerbulletx wrote: post #27

All of these arguments seem to think that the brain isn't also generating a statistical ordering of semantic words and actions. Obviously the brain has a way more complex network of subsystems with various specialties than the artificial models we have today and is able to generalize language, math, and positional reasoning and mix it with the older parts of the brain for reward and training mechanisms and it can do…

Agreed. One of the more interesting things about AI is how it forces humanity on a trip to consider what it means to be human. There is no soul, creativity or inspiration. There's only (very complex) agency. And that's completely fine.

To me it shows how fundamental language is to intelligence.

Not just that LLMs are very capable by themselves, but significantly improve speech and image models.

We’ll need to break out of the Chomsky hierarchies and develop some new theories of language.

Vocal communication isn’t unique to humans, a new theory should be more broadly applicable to non human and non vocal languages.

I’m excited to see what big questions will be answered, and what new questions arise.

Re: There is no A.I.

#147

Post by coldtea »

Animats wrote: post #68

The elephant in the room in these discussions of AI is the concept of the corporation. Most of the things people are worried about AI doing are things corporations already do. Deceptive marketing, exploiting customer information, conspiring to keep prices high, creating distractions from things companies are doing, setting up monopolies, lying to customers - the usual. With AI, this can be automated. Most of this is…

>Once AI systems can outperform CEOs, investors and boards will insist they be in charge.

If it comes to AIs replacing CEOs and boards, those in power will change the rules so they can't be replaced. Who do you think influenced the laws for corporate governance? The public?

Re: There is no A.I.

#148

Post by raydiatian »

The problem is that at the inter-governmental scale of civilization, it’s essentially Stone Age tribalism. Survival of the fittest. As such, countries like the US and China are incentivized to disregard AI ethics in the interest of self preservation.

Mankind wins reality if we can install an AI as a one world order system with lasting world peace. It genuinely doesn’t matter if it is a communist or capitalist invented system, it just needs to out-function our current paradigm of warring to maintain status quo.

Mankind loses reality if we build genocidal AI death systems.

Re: There is no A.I.

#149

Post by xyzzy123 »

wefarrell wrote: post #117
Animats wrote: post #68

The elephant in the room in these discussions of AI is the concept of the corporation. Most of the things people are worried about AI doing are things corporations already do. Deceptive marketing, exploiting customer information, conspiring to keep prices high, creating distractions from things companies are doing, setting up monopolies, lying to customers - the usual. With AI, this can be automated. Most of this is…

We will always need a charismatic human being to be the figurehead of an organization, so I don’t think AI will ever replace CEOs. They will wind up making the important decisions though.

How often do most people physically see CEOs, though?

For most purposes maybe it's enough to project charisma in a video.

An AI CEO might also be capable of superhuman "interpersonal" feats like "personally" answering every letter, phone call or complaint.

Re: There is no A.I.

#150

Post by gverrilla »

cyber_kinetist wrote: post #141
Animats wrote: post #68

The elephant in the room in these discussions of AI is the concept of the corporation. Most of the things people are worried about AI doing are things corporations already do. Deceptive marketing, exploiting customer information, conspiring to keep prices high, creating distractions from things companies are doing, setting up monopolies, lying to customers - the usual. With AI, this can be automated. Most of this is…

Or even continuing the idea further, we might say that capitalism is itself already a form of highly sophisticated artificial intelligence that we’ve created, as a abstract autonomous entity with its only purpose being the accumulation of Capital. As a transnational entity it has no bounds and controls billions of human agents, and shapes the Earth to its will, changing ecosystems and climates. It is to be questioned…

I agree, but I would call it a game or perhaps a dance. One full of contradictions, for sure. But one we can direct to Harmony, as well. Gratuity, for instance, is expanding.

Who better than an AI to 'ride' an AI? AI will be the game master, in role-playing games terms.

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