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The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

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Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#351

Post by ocdtrekkie »

abvdasker wrote: post #285

To me what's so maddening about these attacks on Internet privacy is that they're extremely unpopular with actual voters across the political spectrum (it's just that awareness of these measures is very low). No politician would ever dare to campaign on a policy like this because nobody wants it. These persistent attempts to pass anti-privacy measures really highlight the corruption of American "democracy" given that…

This is false. There's significant support across the political spectrum for curtailing Section 230, which is why EARN IT has bipartisan cosponsors.

Big tech companies, employees of said companies, and their lobbyists and marketing angles, of course, are loudly against it, which is why you will see less support for it here on HN.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#352

Post by youarenutz »

anigbrowl wrote: post #178
JPws_Prntr_Fngr wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By accepting their framing of "CSAM vs personal privacy" as the moral conundrum, you have already lost. You will be forced to compromise over and over, trading a little liberty for a little security, "for the children." As if the "intelligence community" that ran Jeffrey Epstein is going to use their shiny new surveillance powers to eradicate pedophilia.

That's wrong. CSAM is a problem, the tech industry has failed to get to grips with how easily it facilitates CSAM sharing (not dissimilar to piracy, though I support the latter), and until the tech industry can point to a credible CSAM mitigation policy proposal it will keep looping back to the CSAM-v-privacy framing. Skip the rhetorical flourishes and come up with a proposal that addresses the issue. If you refuse t…

[dead]

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#353

Post by sgjohnson »

JohnFen wrote: post #302
sgjohnson wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 3 steps after that you’ll have to go live off grid in a cabin in the woods. As romantic as it sounds, the one single purpose for for-profit companies is to produce shareholder value, and very few of them see shareholder value in keeping a legal department specifically designed for fighting constant and endless attacks on our privacy. Much more profitable to do anything else instead.

I refuse to believe that we are as powerless to stop oppression as your comment implies.

The absolute vast majority of the population don't care one bit about their privacy.

If they did, Google and Meta would be out of business. The only thing they really offer is for advertisers to target really, really specific groups of people thanks to the data they collect from those groups (EVERYONE, except a handful of HN readers and other dissidents) which everyone voluntarily hands over, because they simply don't care.

Of course, it's just a symptom of the problem.

Refuse to believe all you want, but have a deep think and consider whether the average person cares about his privacy. Even if they say they do.

Freedom doesn't sell anymore. Outsourcing virtually every single aspect of your life to a corporation that Just Knows Better(tm) does. Everything is a service. Most of the tech you own is a service, not a physical item.

And both things can't be true simultaneously, you can't crave freedom while outsourcing absolutely everything to someone else. Freedom requires you to take over the responsibility over your life, which far too many people simply aren't willing to do. Unfortunately, in my opinion, this is where the society has ended up in.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#355

Post by sgjohnson »

colinsane wrote: post #284
sgjohnson wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 3 steps after that you’ll have to go live off grid in a cabin in the woods. As romantic as it sounds, the one single purpose for for-profit companies is to produce shareholder value, and very few of them see shareholder value in keeping a legal department specifically designed for fighting constant and endless attacks on our privacy. Much more profitable to do anything else instead.

born too late for homesteading to be a skill exercised and shared by a meaningful portion of society; born too early for homesteading to be made accessible via better technology. but a hundred years from now i do think “have to go live in a cabin in the woods” will be more like “get to”. because if that was something everyone could easily manage, i have no doubt i’d find myself in some cabin-in-the-woods community fu…

It is highly likely that it's still possible today. All you need is a bunch of other wackos, like you say.

Alone? No chance whatsoever.

Bundy standoff worked, after all. Of course it has the prerequisite of being willing to die for the cause, which I doubt many people have, aside from the very select few for whom the most important mission in life is to live free.

Me? I thoroughly admire such "wackos", but I enjoy the finer things in life way too much for this to be a feasible option for me.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#356

Post by winrid »

JPws_Prntr_Fngr wrote: post #86
whitemary wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why the Chinese pity western "democracy," and it's quite easy to see where they're coming from. Of course, it's well established that the US is merely an oligarchy with a massive domestic propaganda operation.

Upvoted because the first sentence might be true, and the second one definitely is. I would say that the US and China are both fantastic examples of why you don't want to allow the construction of a surveillance infrastructure - privatized and public, respectively. We pity each other partially thanks to the propaganda - but I think more importantly because we really are pitiable.

What about Singapore?

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#357

Post by Rufbdbskrufb473 »

hellojesus wrote: post #226
anigbrowl wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's blatant propaganda, but Americans continue to lie to themselves that they live in the freest country in the world.

The real problem is there isn't any better country. Zero countries currently compete with America for greater freedom. Please let me know if you know of any because I'm getting absolutely tired of working four months for free each year, knowing that my tax dollars are paying for goods and services from which I'll never be able to benefit.

It depends what you value most. If you don't mind corruption, then in a lot of developing countries like SE Asia, you can have a huge amount of personal freedom by paying the (relatively cheap) occasional bribe.

If you're morally opposed to that, I'd recommend Singapore for its financial freedoms. After working there for a year, I was initially opposed to such an authoritarian government, but they're one of the rare ones who use their power to run their country very efficiently and keep out of the way of private enterprise.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#358

Post by sgjohnson »

LocalH wrote: post #262
hellojesus wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem is there isn't any better country. Zero countries currently compete with America for greater freedom. Please let me know if you know of any because I'm getting absolutely tired of working four months for free each year, knowing that my tax dollars are paying for goods and services from which I'll never be able to benefit.

Modern governance is the problem. However, if there is no country that's, say 50% free (to put an arbitrary number on it), and even when we presume that America is 49% free and "everyone else" is less, that doesn't mean there is actual freedom. American freedom seems to largely be centered around the ability to make money, the way things are going nowadays. We were more free in the 70s and 80s. Nowadays people in som…

> American freedom seems to largely be centered around the ability to make money, the way things are going nowadays.

There's also the freedom of speech, which thankfully is damn near absolute in the US. In fact it has only increased since the 70s.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#359

Post by trinsic2 »

notRobot wrote: post #3

I'm so tired. I wish we didn't have to keep going through constant attacks on our privacy. I know they're hoping that people will give up after a point out of weariness, and I'm afraid when it comes to many people they're right.

Illegitimate governments stay in power because we legitimize them with our energy. To stop power centralizing requires that the people supporting it shift their energy to something else, preferably local initiatives that center around people doing things for people..

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#360

Post by trinsic2 »

guy98238710 wrote: post #168
notRobot wrote: post #3

I'm so tired. I wish we didn't have to keep going through constant attacks on our privacy. I know they're hoping that people will give up after a point out of weariness, and I'm afraid when it comes to many people they're right.

It's a mistake to just protest these proposals. Counter-proposals that push the balance in opposite direction should be made and pushed through, including some that cut down on existing legislation. A lot of good arguments can be made to support them.

Yes I agree you have to shift your energy to something else, the more you put your energy on dis-empowerment, the stronger it becomes. Take the tools that are being used for the wrong purposes and put them to use for the right purposes.
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