121–130 of 267 posts
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And I do not even talk about the GPU work to handle those thousands of triangles. With 300 points, my scene runs quick&fast even on budget Smartphones ! This is an important issues I can tell you. A video game that runs on all devices ...
At 300 points, a computer from 1996 could run your game.
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The uncompressed audio was on purpose to manage CPU usage, you can find quotes explaining this in interviews. https://www.escapistmagazine.com/titanfall-dev-explains-the-... I can attest that MP3 and OGG decompression (the two audio codecs that would have likely been used at the time) are both pretty slow. It adds up.
What a bunch of absolute horse shit. MP3 isn't slow. I was playing MP3s on a 100 Mhz 486 DX4 in 1996. Certainly a system in 2014 can handle decompressing MP3s on the fly. Even if you didn't want to do it on the fly during game play, they easily could have been decompressed at load time and it would have taken only a couple seconds. It's not like ENTIRE 35 GB of audio needed to be loaded all at once, nobody had that R…
"It's not like ENTIRE 35 GB of audio needed to be loaded all at once" misunderstands the nature of games fundamentally. Some games do potentially need the ability to access any of thousands of sound effects at a moment's notice with the lowest possible latency.
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Yes, that's the problem. You can compress them for size at download time, and recompress them to a GPU-optimal format at the time of installation. You may even be able to do it at runtime with modern hardware, shortening loadtimes and sometimes even improving performance indirectly.
Then you have to have the game reprocess all the assets on the users machine which could easily take an hour
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Really ? It does not feel this way on my scene that has more than 90 .png files used for texture. The time to : download the globel zip file + open and reading the points and all textures => 5 to 7 seconds. This is super quick !
Switching from PNG to basis for my game (currently with a pretty minimal set of textures) was like a 50% reduction in load times with no other changes. Note that I'm not storing assets at rest in a ZIP file because there's no reason to. If I was doing that it might close the gap some.
He completely misses the point. Games don't take hundreds of gigs because they have sub-optimal compression. They take hundreds of gigs because they don't use ANY compression. Jedi Survivor takes 139 gigs on Series X and mere 44 gigs on Series S. It didn't come out yet, but I'm 99.99% certain that this difference is just from inclusion of 8k textures into Series X version. That kind of scaling means that they don't u…
Saying "They take hundreds of gigs because they don't use ANY compression." is absurd when you immediately have to caveat that codecs like BC7 are used for texture data, which makes up a large portion of the shipped data. Sony included dedicated compression support in the PS5, licensed from a leading middleware company, specifically to make it easier to use compression in games. Games are using it. I don't know why y…
Yeah, I could've indicated better that I'm talking about on-disk compression of files.
>Sony included dedicated compression support in the PS5, licensed from a leading middleware company, specifically to make it easier to use compression in games. Games are using it.
Not really if we look at 3rd party games. Jedi Survivor is likely not using that since it takes 147 gigs on PS5 and only 139 on Series X. Warzone doesn't use it, Fortnite doesn't use it(despite Epic's acquisition of RAD), Hogwarts Legacy doesn't use it, Elden Ring doesn't use it, FIFA doesn't use it. These are some of the most popular games on the platform. My point was that he is talking about something beyond LZ compression when most games aren't using tools that are available off-the-shelf.
>You can argue every single file should be compressed at rest on persistent storage after install, but that's a losing argument. People really hate longer load times, so compression at rest is only appropriate if it improves them.
We have hardware-accelerated decompression in all current gen consoles and GPU decompression on PC. We would be in much better world if everyone used that.
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> It's not just speculation. So it’s exactly speculation. A lot of games have done a lot of things for a lot of reasons over the decades. Why are new games so large? Good question. This entire thread is speculative.
Um, no. It's not speculation. Many games have been shown to use uncompressed assets, that's an objective fact. The thread might be speculating about _why_ they do that, or whether this particular game does that, but that's a non sequitur, that isn't what I was talking about.
Has any game in the past 5 years that has an install size >100gb used uncompressed assets? I would be very very surprised! The likelihood of this being the case on PS5 or XSX hardware is approximately zero.
Yes I’m familiar with the infamous uncompressed audio in Titanfall.
Game size is a perennial talking point and some games earn it and some games don’t. There was a phase of games shipping with uncompressed audio in every language they support for no good reason that ballooned file size (Titanfall) Some games have gotten around this problem by having higher resolution textures or additional languages being optional installs within whatever ecosystems DLC implementation is. I think thi…
Titanfall shipped uncompressed audio on purpose to cut out audio decompression CPU usage. You can disagree with the decision, but it wasn't an accident or negligence.
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Um, no. It's not speculation. Many games have been shown to use uncompressed assets, that's an objective fact. The thread might be speculating about _why_ they do that, or whether this particular game does that, but that's a non sequitur, that isn't what I was talking about.
Your statement that some games in the past have used uncompressed assets is a non-sequitur. Has any game in the past 5 years that has an install size >100gb used uncompressed assets? I would be very very surprised! The likelihood of this being the case on PS5 or XSX hardware is approximately zero. Yes I’m familiar with the infamous uncompressed audio in Titanfall.
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By texture compression I meant something like LZ4 or Kraken on top of block texture compression, sorry for ambiguity. Of course they use block level compression. But it seems that it's the only thing they use, as I said in my top level comment.
You'll find that's pretty common since block compression already reduces sizes pretty effectively. At install time the files will be compressed further over the wire before being decompressed, so I imagine the payoff is not that big in many cases. I do wonder how much of it is that a Kraken license costs money and it takes time to integrate, though...
8k texture with mipmaps takes about 100mb with BC7. Which is huge. Should be around 30-40mb with kraken and oodle texture.
> I do wonder how much of it is that a Kraken license costs money and it takes time to integrate, though...
Kraken license doesn't cost anything for Unreal developers. And Sony licensed it for all PS5 games.