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Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

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Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#231

Post by kyrra »

eric-burel wrote: post #12

As a French not expert in the matter but living near nuclear plants: - one of the plant regularly leaks radioactive material - rivers are getting too hot to cool down nuclear plants correctly - nuclear plants are very unreliable, we almost got out of power this winter and next winter will be equally tough (only an abnormally hot winter avoid cuts...) - the government wants to simplify control organism and laws around…

For too much radtion, I recommend reading: https://www.wsj.com/articles/nuclear-regulatory-council-nrc-... (https://archive.is/LITQT).

I'm not sure how France treats radiation levels, but in the US, the guidelines we have set are non-nonsensical.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#232

Post by llsf »

Marsymars wrote: post #200
RandallBrown wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average age of nuclear plants in the US is 40 years old. I can't believe that modern nuclear plants wouldn't be dramatically more profitable. Even if they weren't, it would be worth government incentives to prevent grid destabilization as wind and solar take over as the main sources.

Why would you expect modern nuclear plants to be more profitable? Most of the costs of a nuclear plant are capital costs, which have been increasing faster than the increases in what the generated electricity can be sold for.

True, it is mostly a capital cost for nuclear. That is probably why it makes more sense to get it paid by government.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#233

Post by UncleEntity »

haweemwho wrote: post #175
UncleEntity wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole process is definitely not "carbon-free". How do you think those windmill parts and solar panels get from the manufacturers to the end users? I personally don’t see solar and wind able to provide enough energy to electrify an entire nation’s fleet of freight haulers. Nuclear, maybe — assuming they build a bunch of little plants so a truck can “refuel” in the middle Wyoming away from large populations. Mayb…

I did address your first remark in the end of my comment: > All those factors are usually brought up in detail for things like solar and wind plants. It's just disingenuous not to count them for nuclear power. I did not talk about how much energy is provided or what to do about freight haulers.

I honestly believe that most of the carbon calculations come from the pro-renewable folks to promote whatever pet project they’re on about. Nobody seriously considering building a nuclear power plant is going to care about some “externalities” amortized over its 50-75 year lifetime.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#234

Post by flavius29663 »

eric-burel wrote: post #12

As a French not expert in the matter but living near nuclear plants: - one of the plant regularly leaks radioactive material - rivers are getting too hot to cool down nuclear plants correctly - nuclear plants are very unreliable, we almost got out of power this winter and next winter will be equally tough (only an abnormally hot winter avoid cuts...) - the government wants to simplify control organism and laws around…

> - one of the plant regularly leaks radioactive material

You need to quantify whenever talking about radiation, otherwise it's meaningless. Granite countertops also leak radiation, same as bananas.

Also, coal powered plants leak radiation every time they burn coal...because coal is radioactive too. They also release mercury, which is why we can't eat too much tuna fish.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#235

Post by tremon »

chronicsonic wrote: post #105
eric-burel wrote: post #12

As a French not expert in the matter but living near nuclear plants: - one of the plant regularly leaks radioactive material - rivers are getting too hot to cool down nuclear plants correctly - nuclear plants are very unreliable, we almost got out of power this winter and next winter will be equally tough (only an abnormally hot winter avoid cuts...) - the government wants to simplify control organism and laws around…

Aren’t the reactors there too old and being operated above the original build age? Not sure so was wondering

That's mainly in Belgium. Most of France's reactors are from the 1980s, so they are nearing end-of-life but are not past their designed lifetime.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#236

Post by jonahx »

haweemwho wrote: post #165
SoftTalker wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of that can be true and yet still trivial in comparison to the emissions that would be eliminated by replacing all fossil-fuel electrical generation with nuclear. Nuclear works at night and in locations that aren't good for solar or wind generation. Nuclear with a relatively small number of generating sites feeding a large distributiion network fits in with our existing electricial infrastrucure better than the w…

Well, you didn't actually address my comment, which had nothing to do with solar working at night or similar. It's useful to keep separate arguments separate since jumping around if something doesn't suit your liking is not a sincere discussion style. > If you believe that carbon emissions are an existential threat to human survival FWIW, I don't believe that. Humans will survive, unless we do something like a nuclea…

> It's a species that mostly doesn't care about other species survival.

As opposed to which species that do?

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#237

Post by jpgvm »

mdp2021 wrote: post #129
lispm wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has a large dependence on Russia for nuclear technology. There are also Russian reactors in Europe. The countries who currently lead the deployment of nuclear technology are China and Russia, two authoritarian countries. https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-just-cant-quit-russia...

> Europe has a large dependence on Russia for nuclear technology. There are also Russian reactors in Europe That seems to be a legacy, not a necessary constraint.

Where else are you going to go though? Germany threw in the towel, nuclear has been stagnant in France and USA for decades. Maybe Sweden/Finland? They do it but slowly, expensively and are a whole generation behind.

That leaves you with China. Which from an objective/technical standpoint is actually excellent because their current designs are extremely good.

However it's probably not tenable for the West to procure nuclear technology from China. Not that China wouldn't sell them plants, they almost certainly would, China has no qualms sharing civilian tech but the West couldn't stomach it geopolitically.

Which sadly is going to be the state of affairs for all cutting edge green energy tech. While the rest of the world was sucking off special interests in the fossil fuels industry China was taking it's pledge to be carbon neutral by 2060 extremely seriously.

This means China is now leading across the board in solar, wind, batteries, hydro, EVs, high speed rail and importantly nuclear.

Sad state of affairs for the West all things considered. We had first mover advantage in all of those fields and pissed it away for a few decades of investors profits and executive bonuses.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#238

Post by lispm »

option wrote: post #221
lispm wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has a large dependence on Russia for nuclear technology. There are also Russian reactors in Europe. The countries who currently lead the deployment of nuclear technology are China and Russia, two authoritarian countries. https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-just-cant-quit-russia...

Finland seems to have no issues launching nuclear without russians. But you are right, Russia is big on nuclear. They are authoritarian but are not stupid.

If they were 'not stupid' they wouldn't have invaded Ukraine and caused a massive reaction in Europe for independence of Russian energy.

If they were 'not stupid' and 'not evil', they wouldn't attack a nuclear power plant in the Ukraine. Russia is both stupid and evil with its current invasion of its neighbor country. The amount of environmental damage caused by this war is extremely high.

Russian nuclear technology also does not take care of the environment and the population. Problematic reactors are being built near large cities.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#239

Post by otherme123 »

Nodraak wrote: post #159
eric-burel wrote: post #12

As a French not expert in the matter but living near nuclear plants: - one of the plant regularly leaks radioactive material - rivers are getting too hot to cool down nuclear plants correctly - nuclear plants are very unreliable, we almost got out of power this winter and next winter will be equally tough (only an abnormally hot winter avoid cuts...) - the government wants to simplify control organism and laws around…

> one of the plant regularly leaks radioactive material Please share numbers demonstration health hazards. For ex, bananas are radioactive. Should we outlaw bananas? > rivers are getting too hot to cool down nuclear plants correctly That's wrong. In 2022, the power output had to be reduced by 0.18% (not a typo) ( https://twitter.com/energybants/status/1645696906327388160 ). In addition, Nuclear plants can work even i…

By reliability he refers to french nuclear plants stopped for months due to mantainance and repairs (mainly leaks that couldn't be scheduled).

Painting nuclear as a 100% free of problem energy makes people sound as car salesmans. As of today, nobody want to finance or insure them. As soon as you say "ok, build them reactors if they are so perfect", nuclear advocates want the state to jump in and asume the costs, the consumers to pay an extra price, the safety regulations back to 1960 and the future people to deal with the residues.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#240

Post by illiarian »

uecker wrote: post #222
illiarian wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too bad numbers don't work when it's a quiet night, and you have to burn gas, caol, and biomass to make up for those nuclear reactors you've shut down: https://twitter.com/energybants/status/1647799729734971396

Sorry, I am not interested what a nuclear shill posts on twitter. Here is the source for my numbers (which are the official ones). Sorry, in German but I assume you can guess the labels: https://ag-energiebilanzen.de/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/STR...

Again: total numbers mean absolutely nothing on a night when there's zero production from renewables.

That "shill" is showing data. Just the fact that you don't like this data doesn't make it invalid.

Right now it's night in Germany, and even though the wind is blowing, it's only at 40% generation. And look, there's coal, supplying 22%, and gas supplying another 9%: https://imgur.com/a/3bYudyd

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