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CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

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Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#731

Post by theK »

xienze wrote: post #601
theK wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m afraid these bans get systematically sabotaged by well funded ice lobby groups. Just look at what happened to the EU’s ice ban for personal vehicles. Spoiler: while new gasoline burning cars are technically banned after 2035 it will be completely legal to sell new gasoline burning cars by labelling them e-fuel only…

> I’m afraid these bans get systematically sabotaged by well funded ice lobby groups. They'll be sabotaged by reality. Thinking ICE cars and gas stations will become a fading memory by 2035 is wishful thinking. Politicians get big headlines and praise for proposing ICE bans and such, but as the date draws closer the reality of "OK, maybe we're not quite there yet" sets in and the date will be pushed back again and ag…

How is this related to IP? We are talking about legislature being written to force us to be more Eco friendly. No politician ever wrote or proposed legislation for IP versions.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#732

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

theK wrote: post #110
Akronymus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not have a choice in the matter as more and more countries are thinking of/implementing ICE bans in the near future.

I’m afraid these bans get systematically sabotaged by well funded ice lobby groups. Just look at what happened to the EU’s ice ban for personal vehicles. Spoiler: while new gasoline burning cars are technically banned after 2035 it will be completely legal to sell new gasoline burning cars by labelling them e-fuel only…

VERY few places are even thinking of banning ICE sales within 5 years - most timelines are 15 years - at which point, if you're looking at realistic projections - you won't even need to ban them. The sales will already be very low (in the places that are thinking about the bans).

The reality of these bans is that exception after exception is tacked on for a long time.

One of the cool things about this type of political maneuver is that it's a bit like the Fed Put. You can get the market to move in the direction you want without actually shooting your bazooka. Just by saying your thinking about banning ICE cars - you're going to get manufacturers and sellers preparing for that and shifting over as much sales as they can to non-ICE cars.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#733

Post by theK »

bartvk wrote: post #553
geysersam wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would anyone want to use e-fuel in 2035 instead of electricity? (Except for "luxury" brands that just want to be special to distinguish themselves from the rabble.)

Long distance trucks?

The EU ICE ban discussd here only targets personal vehicles. The trucking and aviation industroies are different discussions.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#735

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #539
moron4hire wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, it's like, 50 yards out of the way? You stop at whatever gas station you're driving past. I don't know anybody who makes a specific trip to go fuel their car.

The existence and popularity of sites like gasbuddy.com suggests that some number of people are willing to go out of their way to find the lowest price. I personally know people who will make a run to Costco for gas, even if they're not going to go in for groceries, because the price is good. There are at least a half dozen gas stations on the way to Costco.

Half the people driving out of their way to get gas are bad at math. The other half simply don't assign a dollar value to their time.

If your car gets 30 mpg, has a 16 gallon tank (that you refill at 1/4 tank, so you're buying 12 gallons), and you drive an extra 5 miles to pay $3.93/gallon instead of $4.00/gallon, how much did you really save?

I'll give you a hint: It's less than a nickel.

Meanwhile, you've probably driven at least 10 minutes that you didn't need to drive. 10 minutes to save a few pennies.

The math only gets worse as the gas prices go up and your fuel economy goes down. You need a greater delta to make the drive worth it.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#736

Post by vel0city »

mdp2021 wrote: post #563
kwhitefoot wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Range anxiety would be gone. Range anxiety is an affliction more common among those who do not drive an EV than those who do.

> is an affliction more common among That is a tautology... "Those who weigh the downside more remain in the alternative option." What did you want to mean?

Their point was that a number of people who have range anxiety are those who haven't actually looked at what the impact of changing to an EV would actually be. Which, for a lot of people, wouldn't be nearly as much as they would think.

A lot of people with range anxiety probably use an EV with little to no impact in their driving habits other than plugging in when they get home. But they're so concerned with "what if's" that rarely ever come up in their lives. "But what if I suddenly need to drive across the country taking only back country roads and avoiding all highways across the furthest north roads in the coldest of winter?? Can't do that in an EV!"

The most common reactions I get to people asking about my EV are along the lines of "But how do you charge it? Don't you have to wait at public chargers all the time? It must be so challenging driving an EV with so many broken chargers all the time! You must have to wait so long all the time for all that charging, its so slow!" Which is quite strange, because the vast majority of charging sessions most EVs would probably experience are plugging in at their home entirely negating these concerns.

For a lot of those people asking me those questions (often friends and family), I know they'd be able to replace a car with an EV and have only positive impacts other than the costs of buying a new car (something they do on some schedule regularly). But the talking heads on the TV tell them EVs == slow, unreliable, expensive charging so clearly all EV owners must be dealing with largely unavailable, unreliable, expensive, slow charging all the time. When in reality I spend more time pumping gas in my ICE than I do waiting on my EV to charge, I've encountered more broken gas pumps than charging dispensers in the last year, and it costs me almost 10x less in energy cost than my ICE per mile.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#737

Post by abustamam »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #510
svnt wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a sign of the success of the oil industry that this analysis always takes the cost of electricity generation back to the source, but assumes that fuel stations pump from a perfect source of naturally refined/distilled hydrocarbons. It is surprisingly difficult to get numbers on how much oil is used to extract, refine and transport oil. The best I found was this: https://www.speakev.com/threads/energy-required-t…

ICE cars also have to often go out of their way to the fuel pump, while most EVs are charged at home/office. There must be small impact of that as well to the CO2 calculations.

EV driver here, I live in an apartment complex with no charging stations installed. I and many other neighbors who drive EVs have to go to a charging station to charge.

On the way to the charging station, we probably pass a dozen gas stations.

I love my EV but let's not pretend it's always more convenient. If you have the opportunity to charge at home/work then yes it's great, but you're still reliant on public charging infrastructure if you decide to drive outside your normal range, and it takes a lot longer to charge than it takes to fill up a tank of gas, even considering the speed of Tesla Superchargers.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#738

Post by steveBK123 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #703
steveBK123 wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICE efficiency also more driven by RPM & therefore where you are in the gears. So ICE designers have decisions to make about which speeds to optimize for. ICE peak efficiency tends to be more around 45mph than 30mph. But yes, the less you brake in an ICE, the more efficient. Hybrids give you a bit of the ICE range/highway efficiency with the EV city driving efficiency, with the added complexity of having ICE & EV und…

A modern 8-10 speed automatic transmission can easily put the engine at or near the ideal consumption RPM whether it's 30 mph or 80 mph. If we really cared about efficiency, we'd have smaller motors. Throttling decreases efficiency, so the best mileage is going to be cruising at WOT (naively assuming no fuel mixture enrichment, which isn't always true). A classic example of this strategy is an old Geo Metro. Light, t…

Right, I think what sometimes gets discounted with EVs is .. they are really easy to make a no-compromise vehicle compared to ICE. You can make an ICE fast, but you'll pay for that at the pump.

You can make an EV that is as fast as a Porsche but highway cruises like a Prius. It's up to the idiot behind the wheel if they prefer to go fast or go far.

I remember in high school my "fast for a regular car" Pontiac did 0-60 in about 7sec. This is achievable in a Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt now. The most low price, vanilla and dated tech in EVs you can buy.

EV buyers will quibble about 0-60s in the 4 second range that aren't even sold as "performance". You used to have to buy a BMW of M designation to achieve these types of numbers in a 4 door sedan, and get the horrible MPG along with it.

The chunky hatchback crossover MachE GT Mustang EV is faster than an ICE Mustang Mach 1 which gets a mid-teens MPG..

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#739

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

qikInNdOutReply wrote: post #310
masklinn wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the absolute best theoretical efficiency of this might be 70% While ICE are heat engines with a theoretical limit of 70%, they’re more specialised subsets described by the Otto (gas) and Diesel (… diesel) cycles, which have a much lower theoretical maximum. Just plugging the temperature ranges into Carnot will give you a Carnot limit of 50%, and using Otto will yield 46% ( https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/98992…

Wrap the combustion engine with a heatpump to a small steam engine?

The added weight and complexity would probably negate any benefit gained.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#740

Post by johncalvinyoung »

pjc50 wrote: post #320
sidewndr46 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets thrown out quite a bit but I don't really buy it. If it is not designed for alcohol, it probably isn't going to work. Alcohol has too many weird interactions with stuff like aluminum.

Many countries are running on part-ethanol already; the UK is on "E10" (up to 10%)

most gasoline available in the eastern USA is E10. I go out of my way to get E0 for a vintage high-performance vehicle I drive on occasion, it's noticeably happier without the ethanol, even if it can drive on E10 without damage.
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