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Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

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Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#71

Post by Kuinox »

Lacerda69 wrote: post #28

Cue the atomic fanatics vs the renewable cult discussion. Has been discussed a thousand times on HN recently and it always seems both are just shouting how the other side can not see the obvious superiority of their fav energy source. why cant we have a bit of both? renewable seems very good long term and nuclear is also nice for transition. but I wouldnt want to live next to one of those crappy leaky french reactors…

> but I wouldnt want to live next to one of those crappy leaky french reactors.

Well both side complain about truth and disinformation, and this affirmation is far from reality.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#72

Post by tstrimple »

Lacerda69 wrote: post #28

Cue the atomic fanatics vs the renewable cult discussion. Has been discussed a thousand times on HN recently and it always seems both are just shouting how the other side can not see the obvious superiority of their fav energy source. why cant we have a bit of both? renewable seems very good long term and nuclear is also nice for transition. but I wouldnt want to live next to one of those crappy leaky french reactors…

Because our for-profit energy sector has decided not to invest in nuclear, even with government subsidies. This is basic business. Are you as the CEO of an energy company going to invest tens of billions of dollars into a plant that won't be operational for decades or are you just going to stand up more wind farms where you can start realizing a profit the next year? If you want nuclear, you simply cannot have an energy grid dependent on companies who's goal is profit. This is why all of the talk about how great nuclear is simply doesn't matter. The market doesn't support it and we're ruled by the markets.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#73

Post by retrac »

rullelito wrote: post #46

To every windpower fanatic in the comments. What is the plan for days when there is little wind? I guess coal?

Wind goes well with gas turbine generators, since they can match their output to demand and the supply of wind. Every watt-hour of wind energy you capture, is a watt-hour of gas you don't burn. Worst case scenario is no wind and you're burning gas -- which is already a main electric source.

Taken too far you would get into this weird situation of over-spending for capacity, and having surplus wind energy when it's windy, while still burning gas when it's not. But as a moderate contribution to a grid, 10 - 30% of supply perhaps, especially where gas is a primary source already, it makes a lot of sense, in some places.

I hope no one expects to actually run everything on 100% wind power.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#74

Post by illiarian »

fuzzy2 wrote: post #45

I mean, certainly. Well, maybe not the answer, but whatever. However, are we actually capable of building new reactors and managing their operation in the private sector? I’m not talking about possibly maybe here. Are we actually ready, today, to build a new reactor within reasonable time at reasonable cost? I don’t know, but my gut feeling says no. We cannot even build roads like that. Furthermore, is operating thes…

Current renewables also externalise a lot of factors. Any production at scale externalises a lot of factors.

Unfortunately, the discussion is so emotionally and politically charged, that I'm afraid no one is actually properly calculating all the costs, and risks etc.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#75

Post by timellis-smith »

pydry wrote: post #62
timellis-smith wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course and that needs to be factored into renewable supplies which massively increases their cost. When you have periods of Dunkelflaute you potentially need to have full grid redundancy either through inter-connects, other energy generation sources or battery backup, none of which are cheap.

>Of course and that needs to be factored into renewable supplies which massively increases their cost. It is and it does but being 5x cheaper means even a massive increase in cost still doesnt put it in the same league as nuclear power.

That doesn't matter because it's not like you can double renewables to increase redundancy (no wind is no wind no matter how many turbines you have)- you need another more expensive energy source as well.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#76

Post by mdp2021 »

rullelito wrote: post #40
themagician wrote: post #38

My 2¢: We live in a world where all work goes to the lowest bidder and people will always cut corners if they believe the liability won't fall on them. The entire world could be safely powered off nuclear energy if it wasn't for pesky humans that will always lie, cheat, and steal from each other. Given that human greed is unavoidable and a nuclear accident can pollute an area for 10,000 years it's probably best to re…

An alternative to emotional arguments is to look at the statistics.

That argument is not emotional, it is rational: assessment highlights risks.

The quantification of those risks is another matter.

The parallel fact, for example, that nuclear weapons require maintenance, and that maintenance requires budget, may make some shiver - not because of an "emotional" idea. It is because you look.

--

Update: children behave.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#77

Post by Kuinox »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #20
illiarian wrote: post #2

Relevant: "Germany's 66.5 GW of installed wind is only producing as much as the 3 reactors that turned off last night used to produce." https://twitter.com/energybants/status/1647799729734971396

On a night when wind output was particularly low. Another way to put this is that variable sources of energy are variable.

Particularly low output can happen for a whole month. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-29/dearth-of...

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#78

Post by illiarian »

Krasnol wrote: post #21
stuff4ben wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

renewables are not cheap when you factor in decommissioning which nuclear power does. FTFA: "The International Renewable Energy Agency calculates that old solar panel disposal to meet 2050 Paris Accords 'will more than double the tonnage of all of today’s global plastic waste.'"

Nuclear only factors in decommissioning in the way that it gives the responsibility away to future generations...

Nuclear waste decommissioned from nuclear plants is very compact, almost completely safe at our current levels of handling it, and a lot of bruhaha around it is strictly political.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#79

Post by [deleted] »

lispm wrote: post #58
rullelito wrote: post #46

To every windpower fanatic in the comments. What is the plan for days when there is little wind? I guess coal?

Import electricity, for example. We have here a 1.4 GW line to Norway for hydro power. Generally Germany is surrounded by many countries which share electricity. There are many wind farms in and around the North Sea. Yes, Germany is a large net exporter of electricity.

[deleted]

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#80

Post by realusername »

eric-burel wrote: post #12

As a French not expert in the matter but living near nuclear plants: - one of the plant regularly leaks radioactive material - rivers are getting too hot to cool down nuclear plants correctly - nuclear plants are very unreliable, we almost got out of power this winter and next winter will be equally tough (only an abnormally hot winter avoid cuts...) - the government wants to simplify control organism and laws around…

> - nuclear plants are very unreliable, we almost got out of power this winter and next winter will be equally tough (only an abnormally hot winter avoid cuts...)

Why we don't talk like that about renewables though? While the nuclear production was down to 65% capacity, renewables were down in the same time to ... 8%.

To be fair, the renewable production was lacking even more than the nuclear one at that time, despite being the worst maintainance event during the past 40 years.

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