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Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

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Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#61

Post by illiarian »

eric-burel wrote: post #29
kvgr wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can it leaks? Do you have any source? Well you had some of them turned off for maintanance, that happens.

Look for the Tricastin plant I don't know enough to answer precisely but it has leaked recently and a few years ago. Of course it doesn't leak uranium, but other byproducts, which not a sign of a well managed plant. Some were stopped not just maintenance but the discovery of micro-breaches caused by maintenance decades ago. That's actually a sign of proper management, but a counter-argument to reliability.

- "one of the plant regularly leaks radioactive material"

- "Look for the Tricastin plant I don't know enough to answer precisely but it has leaked recently and a few years ago. Of course it doesn't leak uranium"

So, your original statement was an untruth. Or "alternative facts"

> of micro-breaches caused by maintenance decades ago. That's actually a sign of proper management, but a counter-argument to reliability.

So you mean microbreaches were made decades ago, the plant has operated for decades with no issues, and you call that unreliable?

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#62

Post by pydry »

timellis-smith wrote: post #26
rhaway84773 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a night when wind output was particularly low. Another way to put this is that variable sources of energy are variable.

Of course and that needs to be factored into renewable supplies which massively increases their cost. When you have periods of Dunkelflaute you potentially need to have full grid redundancy either through inter-connects, other energy generation sources or battery backup, none of which are cheap.

>Of course and that needs to be factored into renewable supplies which massively increases their cost.

It is and it does but being 5x cheaper means even a massive increase in cost still doesnt put it in the same league as nuclear power.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#63

Post by illiarian »

ben_w wrote: post #52
illiarian wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you push for renewables instead of wasting money on over due and over budget nuclear reactors --- start quote --- Ernst & Young (EY) has found that an average power and utility megaproject is delivered 35% over budget and two years behind schedule Of the megaprojects surveyed, 64% were delayed and 57% were over budge. Almost three-quarters of hydropower, water, coal and nuclear infrastructure projects were over…

> nuclear infrastructure projects were over budget by 49% on average, Ahem.

Let me fix that quote for you:

"Almost three-quarters of hydropower, water, coal and nuclear infrastructure projects were over budget by 49% on average,".

ALL OF THEM. Not just nuclear.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#64

Post by illiarian »

lispm wrote: post #50
illiarian wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wind alone produces ~20% of the recent years electricity in Germany. Yearly production means nothing on the night when it produces single-digit percentages of its installed capacity, does it?

We can import electricity from the European grids we are connected to. For example my region has recently brought up a 1.4 GW HVDC underwater cable, which can be used in both directions. It connects North Germany to Hydro power in Norway.

> We can import electricity from the European grids we are connected to.

Ah yes. The magical grid that will surely have the capacity to supply all of Germany's power if suddenly there's night and no wind just in Germany (and nowhere else in Europe, stopping at the border, apparently).

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#65

Post by mdp2021 »

option wrote: post #3

and is a way to significantly reduce dependence on fundamentally authoritarian regimes in Saudi Arabia, Russia, Venezuela, etc. One of the reasons France is like 75% nuclear generation was response to arab oil crisis in 70ies

It seems Uranium has varied sources: Kazakhstan (dominantly), then Namibia, Canada, Australia, Uzbekistan, Russia, Niger, China, India. The USA also have it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_Uranium_Mining_Prod...

I am not sure what other "consumables" are involved.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#66

Post by lispm »

option wrote: post #3

and is a way to significantly reduce dependence on fundamentally authoritarian regimes in Saudi Arabia, Russia, Venezuela, etc. One of the reasons France is like 75% nuclear generation was response to arab oil crisis in 70ies

Europe has a large dependence on Russia for nuclear technology. There are also Russian reactors in Europe. The countries who currently lead the deployment of nuclear technology are China and Russia, two authoritarian countries.

https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-just-cant-quit-russia...

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#67

Post by realusername »

pydry wrote: post #62
timellis-smith wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course and that needs to be factored into renewable supplies which massively increases their cost. When you have periods of Dunkelflaute you potentially need to have full grid redundancy either through inter-connects, other energy generation sources or battery backup, none of which are cheap.

>Of course and that needs to be factored into renewable supplies which massively increases their cost. It is and it does but being 5x cheaper means even a massive increase in cost still doesnt put it in the same league as nuclear power.

It has to be way more than 5 times cheaper to compensate the drop to single digits capacity percentages like last winter.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#68

Post by brucethemoose2 »

eric-burel wrote: post #29
kvgr wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can it leaks? Do you have any source? Well you had some of them turned off for maintanance, that happens.

Look for the Tricastin plant I don't know enough to answer precisely but it has leaked recently and a few years ago. Of course it doesn't leak uranium, but other byproducts, which not a sign of a well managed plant. Some were stopped not just maintenance but the discovery of micro-breaches caused by maintenance decades ago. That's actually a sign of proper management, but a counter-argument to reliability.

Yep, a 1980 PWR... sounds about right.

Modern reactor designs are so much better. They are also basically nonexistent because everyone stopped building reactors :(

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#69

Post by illiarian »

ben_w wrote: post #57
illiarian wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wind alone produces ~20% of the recent years electricity in Germany. Yearly production means nothing on the night when it produces single-digit percentages of its installed capacity, does it?

Other way around, the installed capacity is the meaningless number, the actual production is the only thing that matters. By way of example: install PV upside down, "capacity" is the same, but now it's useless.

> Other way around, the installed capacity is the meaningless number, the actual production is the only thing that matters.

This is beautifully put, thank you

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#70

Post by blibble »

kvgr wrote: post #24
eric-burel wrote: post #12

As a French not expert in the matter but living near nuclear plants: - one of the plant regularly leaks radioactive material - rivers are getting too hot to cool down nuclear plants correctly - nuclear plants are very unreliable, we almost got out of power this winter and next winter will be equally tough (only an abnormally hot winter avoid cuts...) - the government wants to simplify control organism and laws around…

How can it leaks? Do you have any source? Well you had some of them turned off for maintanance, that happens.

all nuclear power stations emit small amounts of liquid and gas radwaste as part of normal operation

mostly tritium and tritiated water that has been activated in the coolant circuits (practically impossible to separate)

but some other isotopes (carbon-14, caesium-137)

here's the environmental permit for the UK's most modern power station: https://consult.environment-agency.gov.uk/nuclear/consultati...

solid radwaste is kept under lock and key though

and the total volume of radioactive waste produced is WAY WAY WAY less than that produced burning fossil fuels

(turns out coal is reasonably radioactive)

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