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Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

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Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#41

Not the law yet, but as Scott Aaronson (I'm positive along with others) has pointed out, this would make their universities vastly less attractive to various incoming faculty. Whether that would be as impactful in STEM as in the humanities or human-interest areas like law remains to be seen.

IMHO, right now, tenure is the only edge Academia has in many areas of STEM compared to industrial labs.

Other countries have suppressed tenure in the past, Denmark comes to mind, and this scared tons of great faculty.

Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#42
> Public-college boards would be able to create “an alternate system of tiered employment status for faculty members” that’s not tenure, the legislation states. But that system would require faculty members to go through an annual performance evaluation.

That sounds closer to how most jobs work.

Honestly, I've never understood the purpose of tenure; it seems like an archaic tradition. If it's to give professors freedom to do research without fear of reprisal, it's not working, at least not optimally: there are plenty of ways to punish tenured researchers.

The professors I know personally have no expectation of ever getting tenure. Imagine that: Ph.D. in your field, work 30 years, never even seriously entertain the possibility of getting the brass ring. Something's broken there.

The best professor I had at university was in his sixties when I took his courses, and he never got tenure despite being really good at his job. The people who get tenure seem to be people who bring a lot of attention or a lot of money to the university. Both of those are only a professor's "job" if you look at universities as cynical money-making machines (a disenchantment I have slowly come around to).

I guess what I'm saying is, I have no problems with Texas throwing a grenade into this situation. I am somewhat skeptical of the likelihood of them replacing it with a better system in practice, though.

Still, some better solution must be found if we expect higher education to continue as an institution into the future. If this bill passes, I wish them good luck, and will be looking at this as an interesting experiment.

Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#43

This is the republicans punishing groups of people they don't like.

Indeed, the state shouldn't be able to silence free-speech regardless of how one feels for the content [1, 2]. One should use reason and logic to counter arguments instead of force [3].

[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/02/desantis-f...

[2] https://time.com/6258304/florida-bill-ban-dei-crt-universiti...

[3] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...

Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#45
post #6

Honestly, it may not be a bad thing. Tenure was meant to protect the academic freedom, and pursuit of the long-term scientific research. Today, most academics chase money, grants, trends, citations and status. It’s a job like any other, and doesn’t need protection, at cost to those outside the ivory tower (unless perhaps for a very small subset).

What is academic freedom in 2023?

Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#46
post #19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The change in academia is largely correlated with the fall-off of tenured positions in favor of adjunct faculty and the explosion of administration. I don't think it indicates that there is no need for tenure, but rather that tenure provided a bulwark against the very outcomes we now are seeing.

What if we started an institution that automated most of the admin, hired and based admissions on pure skill/ability/talent? It seems to me that something so simple couldn't possibly work...

> hired and based admissions on pure skill/ability/talent

This would be great, but I will present without comment the fact that lots of large universities are suddenly getting rid of standardized-test-based admissions, which is by far the best way that we know how to do ability-based admissions.

You must understand the dynamics behind that decision to understand why it isn't currently legally/institutionally feasible to have merit-based admission.

Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#47
post #35
post #4

So the Texas Senate just passed a bill that makes it more likely that Texas faculty hires will be from a smaller and no doubt lower quality pool of candidates? Why take a job without the possibility of tenure vs anywhere else in the US that has the option available to you?

Not college, but my wife is wrapping up her teaching certification soon. We have both considered moving to Florida (we both have family that live there), but there is no chance in hell that we are moving to Florida and teaching; the infamous "Don't Say Gay" bill is so broad and idiotic (and she would be teaching biology ), that Florida is a complete non-starter for us since neither of us really have any desire to be…

I’m not from US but I’m curious what is the situation in other states? Are there situations like that occurring elsewhere (even if the bias is in the opposite political direction e.g. in California or somewhere) or is Florida a “lonely island” here with regard to free speech limitations on universities?

Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this would make their universities vastly less attractive to various incoming faculty ...but given the flood state of the academic labor market, still rather attractive.

I doubt they will have much problem finding people who are qualified to teach. But it's going to make it more difficult to continue hiring people who are seen as some of the best in the world in in-demand areas.

But will it affect their football recruiting?

Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#49
If there are trying to reduce entitlement spending, maybe they should start with their own state pension system. Maybe start with state representatives and move from a guarantee benefits system to a 401k or similar system where benefits aren’t guaranteed.

Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#50
post #6

Honestly, it may not be a bad thing. Tenure was meant to protect the academic freedom, and pursuit of the long-term scientific research. Today, most academics chase money, grants, trends, citations and status. It’s a job like any other, and doesn’t need protection, at cost to those outside the ivory tower (unless perhaps for a very small subset).

More generally we need better protections for faculty with controversial views who can still teach and research to not get “cancelled”; better labor protections and more jobs so that faculty can advocate for themselves and receive less work (vs. getting disciplined or fired) when they are too old to effectively teach and research; better grants and more jobs so that faculty have better pay; better grants and more job…

>”a culture which openly hates education and dissent, so in this specific case it’s definitively bad.”

This is a completely untrue and biased stereotype. No one in Texas “openly hates education”.

As for the dissent aspect, I don’t even know where to begin with that one.

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