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Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

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Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#11

Post by michaelhoffman »

whitemary wrote: post #5
quantified wrote: post #2

Not the law yet, but as Scott Aaronson (I'm positive along with others) has pointed out, this would make their universities vastly less attractive to various incoming faculty. Whether that would be as impactful in STEM as in the humanities or human-interest areas like law remains to be seen.

> this would make their universities vastly less attractive to various incoming faculty ...but given the flood state of the academic labor market, still rather attractive.

I doubt they will have much problem finding people who are qualified to teach.

But it's going to make it more difficult to continue hiring people who are seen as some of the best in the world in in-demand areas.

Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#12

Post by some-guy »

dwighttk wrote: post #7

how many tenure track positions are hiring these days? I have the impression that they are pretty rare anyway.

My wife just got one straight out of her PhD, but it's not super common unless you're 1) very cutthroat competitive and 2) willing to move far (in our case, 5 hours from the Bay Area).

Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#13

Post by rhaway84773 »

aborsy wrote: post #6

Honestly, it may not be a bad thing. Tenure was meant to protect the academic freedom, and pursuit of the long-term scientific research. Today, most academics chase money, grants, trends, citations and status. It’s a job like any other, and doesn’t need protection, at cost to those outside the ivory tower (unless perhaps for a very small subset).

Even assuming you’re right, that’s only true until the next step the Texas legislature takes, because any benefit will be contrary to their goals, which is to hurt higher education.

Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#14

Post by tristor »

aborsy wrote: post #6

Honestly, it may not be a bad thing. Tenure was meant to protect the academic freedom, and pursuit of the long-term scientific research. Today, most academics chase money, grants, trends, citations and status. It’s a job like any other, and doesn’t need protection, at cost to those outside the ivory tower (unless perhaps for a very small subset).

The change in academia is largely correlated with the fall-off of tenured positions in favor of adjunct faculty and the explosion of administration. I don't think it indicates that there is no need for tenure, but rather that tenure provided a bulwark against the very outcomes we now are seeing.

Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#15

Post by ModernMech »

aborsy wrote: post #6

Honestly, it may not be a bad thing. Tenure was meant to protect the academic freedom, and pursuit of the long-term scientific research. Today, most academics chase money, grants, trends, citations and status. It’s a job like any other, and doesn’t need protection, at cost to those outside the ivory tower (unless perhaps for a very small subset).

Doesn't matter really, what it does is make Texas public schools second rate. They will fail to attract top qualified candidates, and that's all there is to it. They are cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#16

Post by cal5k »

aborsy wrote: post #6

Honestly, it may not be a bad thing. Tenure was meant to protect the academic freedom, and pursuit of the long-term scientific research. Today, most academics chase money, grants, trends, citations and status. It’s a job like any other, and doesn’t need protection, at cost to those outside the ivory tower (unless perhaps for a very small subset).

It also only applies to public universities - private institutions can still do whatever they want.

Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#17

Post by rhaway84773 »

dwighttk wrote: post #7

how many tenure track positions are hiring these days? I have the impression that they are pretty rare anyway.

It’s not just about tenure though. It’s the fact that the people who have the power to control everything about the public universities in Texas have shown that they will damage them, specifically by targeting faculty.

Even if I’m a non-tenure track faculty member I would probably require a Texas university to offer a significant premium over a competing offer from a CA university, for example, before I decide to establish my career there.

Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#18

Post by burkaman »

aborsy wrote: post #6

Honestly, it may not be a bad thing. Tenure was meant to protect the academic freedom, and pursuit of the long-term scientific research. Today, most academics chase money, grants, trends, citations and status. It’s a job like any other, and doesn’t need protection, at cost to those outside the ivory tower (unless perhaps for a very small subset).

Are you suggesting that making the job less secure will make academics less interested in money, grands, trends, citations, and status? They'll be more content to just focus on the science and ignore money and fame, knowing that they can't get tenure and can be fired at any time?

Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#19

Post by all2 »

tristor wrote: post #14
aborsy wrote: post #6

Honestly, it may not be a bad thing. Tenure was meant to protect the academic freedom, and pursuit of the long-term scientific research. Today, most academics chase money, grants, trends, citations and status. It’s a job like any other, and doesn’t need protection, at cost to those outside the ivory tower (unless perhaps for a very small subset).

The change in academia is largely correlated with the fall-off of tenured positions in favor of adjunct faculty and the explosion of administration. I don't think it indicates that there is no need for tenure, but rather that tenure provided a bulwark against the very outcomes we now are seeing.

What if we started an institution that automated most of the admin, hired and based admissions on pure skill/ability/talent? It seems to me that something so simple couldn't possibly work...

Re: Ban on Tenure for New Faculty Hires Passes Texas Senate

#20

Post by majormajor »

aborsy wrote: post #6

Honestly, it may not be a bad thing. Tenure was meant to protect the academic freedom, and pursuit of the long-term scientific research. Today, most academics chase money, grants, trends, citations and status. It’s a job like any other, and doesn’t need protection, at cost to those outside the ivory tower (unless perhaps for a very small subset).

What's somewhat interesting is that this is a move being made by people who simultaneously claim to want more freedom of expression in general.

It's obvious to see how there could be non-Republican-friendly results of faculty being easier to fire for, say, a controversial twitter post.

So what's the thinking here? Seems like it could be...

* pure political theater, without really focusing on long-term affects

* the result of deciding to not even fight a battle for control of administration for public universities in the state (except in that case... if you think the administrators won't share your views, making it easier for them to fire professors seems foolish)

* similar to the above, but maybe a more outright battle on public education in general; possibly the first of many moves in the hope that right-wing private universities will emerge as replacements?)

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