Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes • Hacker News Board

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#21

Post by Krasnol » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 7:42 PM UTC

stuff4ben wrote: post #10

bitwize wrote: post #7

Renewables are cheap and far less risk-prone. Not going all in on renewables is a footgun for industrial societies.

renewables are not cheap when you factor in decommissioning which nuclear power does. FTFA: "The International Renewable Energy Agency calculates that old solar panel disposal to meet 2050 Paris Accords 'will more than double the tonnage of all of today’s global plastic waste.'"

Nuclear only factors in decommissioning in the way that it gives the responsibility away to future generations...

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#22

Post by stuff4ben » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 7:42 PM UTC

Krasnol wrote: post #11

illiarian wrote: post #2

Relevant: "Germany's 66.5 GW of installed wind is only producing as much as the 3 reactors that turned off last night used to produce." https://twitter.com/energybants/status/1647799729734971396

Wind alone produces ~20% of the recent years electricity in Germany. Nuclear produced only half of that in recent years. The whole renewable energy production covers ~40% of all the energy produced. Despite 16 years of almost full stop of expansion. https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Branchen-Unternehmen/Energ...

Soon you're going to run out of land for your renewables. Plus renewables are extremely intermittent power sources. Nuclear solves both the land-use and consistency problems.

Plus, from the article: "...to build enough wind turbines and solar panels to supply at least half the electricity needed for global consumption 'would require two billions tons of coal to produce the concrete and steel, along with two billion barrels of oil to make the composite blades. [And] more than 90% of the world’s solar panels are built in Asia on coal-heavy electrical grids.'"

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/if-you-want-renewable-en...

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#23

Post by cinntaile » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 7:43 PM UTC

> Solar power requires even more metals, cement, steel, and glass.

Why do they always use the same outdated data sources? Cement? Yes 35 years ago they thought you needed to put a slab of cement under your panels to support them, but we moved on from that. Please update to newer, more relevant data sources.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#24

Post by kvgr » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 7:43 PM UTC

eric-burel wrote: post #12

As a French not expert in the matter but living near nuclear plants: - one of the plant regularly leaks radioactive material - rivers are getting too hot to cool down nuclear plants correctly - nuclear plants are very unreliable, we almost got out of power this winter and next winter will be equally tough (only an abnormally hot winter avoid cuts...) - the government wants to simplify control organism and laws around…

How can it leaks? Do you have any source? Well you had some of them turned off for maintanance, that happens.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#25

Post by cschwarm » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 7:44 PM UTC

Question(s) to the nuclear supporters here:

1. Are you talking about global electricity? Or just the West?

2. How much nuclear power do you want? 20%, 50%, 70%, or 100%? Or something else?

3. What nuclear technology? Traditional, Molten Salt, SMRs, or something else?

4. What institutional setting do you image for your nuclear power plants? Private ownership, or nationalized plants like in France?

Just curious...

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#26

Post by timellis-smith » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 7:45 PM UTC

rhaway84773 wrote: post #20

illiarian wrote: post #2

Relevant: "Germany's 66.5 GW of installed wind is only producing as much as the 3 reactors that turned off last night used to produce." https://twitter.com/energybants/status/1647799729734971396

On a night when wind output was particularly low. Another way to put this is that variable sources of energy are variable.

Of course and that needs to be factored into renewable supplies which massively increases their cost. When you have periods of Dunkelflaute you potentially need to have full grid redundancy either through inter-connects, other energy generation sources or battery backup, none of which are cheap.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#27

Post by stuff4ben » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 7:46 PM UTC

Krasnol wrote: post #18

stuff4ben wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear power is the way. If you have something to refute from the article, please do so. Otherwise I'll just lump you in with the rest of the green-party fanatics who think solar and wind will solve our energy needs.

It is the way of wasting money while facing the reality of cheap and truly clean alternatives. It's the way backwards. https://www.forbes.com/sites/amorylovins/2019/11/18/does-nuc... And I'm sorry I hurt your feelings by pointing the obvious bias of the author. This was not intended.

LOL, no hurt feelings here. I support nuclear power along with renewables which have their niche places to contribute. But to completely ignore nuclear in favor of just wind and solar is idiotic and misguided.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#28

Post by Lacerda69 » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 7:46 PM UTC

Cue the atomic fanatics vs the renewable cult discussion. Has been discussed a thousand times on HN recently and it always seems both are just shouting how the other side can not see the obvious superiority of their fav energy source.

why cant we have a bit of both? renewable seems very good long term and nuclear is also nice for transition. but I wouldnt want to live next to one of those crappy leaky french reactors.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#29

Post by eric-burel » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 7:47 PM UTC

kvgr wrote: post #24

eric-burel wrote: post #12

As a French not expert in the matter but living near nuclear plants: - one of the plant regularly leaks radioactive material - rivers are getting too hot to cool down nuclear plants correctly - nuclear plants are very unreliable, we almost got out of power this winter and next winter will be equally tough (only an abnormally hot winter avoid cuts...) - the government wants to simplify control organism and laws around…

How can it leaks? Do you have any source? Well you had some of them turned off for maintanance, that happens.

Look for the Tricastin plant I don't know enough to answer precisely but it has leaked recently and a few years ago. Of course it doesn't leak uranium, but other byproducts, which not a sign of a well managed plant. Some were stopped not just maintenance but the discovery of micro-breaches caused by maintenance decades ago. That's actually a sign of proper management, but a counter-argument to reliability.

Re: Nuclear Power Is the Answer to Global and Environmental Energy Woes

#30

Post by jhp123 » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 7:47 PM UTC

the article mentions that 2 billion tons of coal would be needed to manufacture solar panels to meet half of today's global energy needs with renewables. That is about 3 months of global coal consumption at current rates. If we decide to go all in on nuclear instead, we can turn off the coal plants in a mere 15 years or so.